I'm tired of school


27 okt 2008, 22:52

I'm sorry, I don't mean to complain.....I just have been feeling very frustrated these past three years, and I just have to get it out.

I'm tired of studying and writing papers and daily being around "Christians" who do not believe that Jesus is their Savior. I'm tired of almost all of my textbooks espousing a theologically liberal viewpoint. I'm tired of pointless discussions in class. I'm tired of feeling like I have to fight for everything that I believe 24/7. I'm tired of the whole school thing.

I'm tired of my practicum site not being willing to stand for Jesus Christ alone. It's supposed to be a Christian counseling place, but they do not want to only do things from a Christian perspective. They they feel that they need to branch out, possibly in other religious directions.

A lot of times I question whether or not I even want to go into counseling.

There, I feel better that I said it :)

I just have to make it through the rest of this semester, and then next semester.


  • ISoS

    Welcome to trying to enter a workforce in a country that has "freedom of religion". If you don't like it maybe you should seek employment in a country that maintains a theocracy, that way you can be closed minded and only preach one point of view and help only those people you deem worthy. Unfortunately, most of those places are in the Middle East these days, if I remember correctly.

    28 apr 2009, 20:16
  • The_Fenix

    im tired too

    2 dec 2009, 01:32
  • Arwen4CJ

    ISoS, Freedom of religion also implies that I should have a freedom to hold to a differing theological viewpoint than most of the people at my school. I have every right to hold to my beliefs, just as everyone else has the right to have theirs. No where in my journal have I advocated that the freedom of religion should be denied to anyone. I may not agree with other religions, but that doesn't mean that other people don't have a right to practice those other religions. You know, I don't mind if other viewpoints are taught at my school (though I still think that what they are teaching is wrong). What I do mind is that my viewpoints are not accepted as being legitimate. I'm being graded down because of my beliefs.

    3 dec 2009, 23:02
  • ISoS

    Maybe you're not following the assignment? I'd really need to see an example. It would be like a creationist taking a class on Evolutionary Biology and writing down "God did it" for all the answers. The assignment isn't to discuss your belief, but evolutionary biology. "God did it" is the wrong answer in every case. So higher education doesn't have to support belief systems depending upon the skill set you are being asked to display. You can believe whatever you want, but if you are asked to discuss say The Hindu Religion, and all you talk about is how they're wrong and heathens or whatever, then you didn't complete the assignment. I'm not saying you did this, I'm just throwing out some examples of where I'd say that your beliefs aren't appropriate for the situation. The point of higher education is to expose you to different things, not to make your box smaller. And, honestly, based on the things you write (of which I've read almost all of it), it sounds like you want the box. Which means higher education isn't the place you would like to be. If that makes sense to you. This isn't a statement of "you're too stupid to be there" it's more of a "maybe it's not what you're looking for."

    8 dec 2009, 20:15
  • Arwen4CJ

    ISoS , I get what you were saying. Thank you for being respectful and honest. :) The classes that I had the most trouble with was New Testament and Christian theology classes. The subject came up in other classes too....but no, I wasn't taking a world religions class or something. The classes I was taking were all specifically related to Christianity. Therefore, it SHOULD be accepted that I can hold to more theologically conservative viewpoints. It's not like I'm expressing things that are outside of anything that has ever been believed by the Christian church.

    10 dec 2009, 03:32
  • ISoS

    In that regard I definitely agree. In that forum you should be able to hold to orthodoxy as far as I'm concerned. It's just one of the many ways you can interpret the Bible. I just knew you were going into counselling, and that might be why they want you to have a WAY more liberal approach to these things. You're going to help a myriad of people and a lot of them will likely disagree with your beliefs. So telling them they're having problems because they're not following passage "x" correctly could be disastrous. If you know what I mean. But it sounds like a case of the teacher just wants you to share the SAME interpretation of the Bible he does, when, in my opinion, it's just an interpretative game anyway because none of it is really set in stone. It's like if I had a math teacher that told me "you can only solve simultaneous equations usual way instead of using a matrix." When either way is fine, but marking me off because I didn't use his precise method... that would be stupid and that sounds like what you were dealing with now that you explained it a bit more. Though I wonder, maybe the teacher was trying to get you exposed to different ways of looking at things? Maybe you weren't supposed to believe them, just consider them? My girlfriend had a philosophy teacher that would take on the philosophy of the philosopher they were discussing for the day, so all comments came from that perspective. It was definitely an interesting thing to do and it's not like he actually believed the stuff, he was just trying to get students to see from someone else's perspective. haha, now I want to go take your classes to see for myself.

    17 dec 2009, 13:43
  • Arwen4CJ

    ISoS, Thanks again for your respectful comment :) And yes, I do realize that not everyone I counsel is going to hold to my beliefs. That's one of the reasons that I actually want to have certain things on my informed consent form -- like that it's going to be from a Christian perspective. This isn't to say that I won't counsel non-Christians. I would never turn anyone away. However, I want the people who come to me to know what I'm about before they agree to have me be their counselor. I want them to know that my primary perspective is going to be Christian. It is going to be up to them whether or not they want to work with me. Secondly, to those non-Christians who choose to work with me, I wouldn't force them to see things my way....but I could be honest with them and say...."you know, this seems to be a deeper problem than just...and this is what I'm seeing..." I could bring up religious themes without pushing it on them...it's kind of hard to explain...but that's one of the things that I'm going to let people know about. Secondly, I also realize that not everyone who comes to me and calls themselves a Christian is going to agree with me theologically. Again, that's going to be an area that the informed consent will allow me to touch on. I won't force my view on them...but I may question certain things....especially if I find their theology not correct. (For example -- let's say that someone thinks that God is all about punishing them or...let's say they're heavily into Word of Faith/Prosperity gospel....or let's say they're following someone like Todd Bentley) -- there are ways of gently challenging some of these things. I can't tell them what to think, but I can present another perspective. That's kind of the same as with any counseling, though. It's up to the client to take what they want from the counseling process. The whole thing is touchy....and that's why, for me, I know that I'll need to be relying on the Holy Spirit. You wrote: "So telling them they're having problems because they're not following passage "x" correctly could be disastrous. If you know what I mean." My response: That's not likely to be the approach that I would use with anyone....or at least not in those words. Sometimes the Holy Spirit does reveal things about someone to another person...but in those instances it is always when the person is ready to hear it...and it should be done in a loving way. I do believe that there is a spiritual component to everything that we do -- so there is a spiritual component to all problems. This especially applies to sin and whatever...and not just the person who did the sin...but the person who was sinned against as well. (I'll use rape as an example -- the person who did the raping is affected by the sin....and so is the person who was sinned against....and both of their families, etc). At the same time, there is more than just a spiritual component to every problem. Sometimes the problem is a direct result of sin...and changing that behavior will help the person. The thing is, though, that we all fall short of God's standards....and we live in a fallen world....so because of this, we're all going to be affected. We tend to forget what God's Word says about certain things....and so it's nice to look at Scripture and think about it. Like....in light of this Scripture, what does it say about my current situation? I would not have the tendency to blame someone for their problems because they aren't living up to a certain passage. If I felt like that, I would try to bring the subject up in a different way. It would depend on several things: the Holy Spirit's direction, where the person seemed to be at spiritually (a new Christian or a non-Christian should be approached differently about this sort of thing than a person who has claimed to be Christian for a long time), and the nature of the issue. People are individuals and are unique...so I wouldn't approach everyone exactly the same. Yeah...I think some of the professors at my school have something against the more theologically conservative students (I'm not talking about politics, but theology). One of my friends is having a lot of trouble right now. She's honestly not the best writer...but she tries very hard. She's had several of our friends look over her work (and some of them are very, very liberal theologically). These friends that we have do well at my school. They tend to get A's, and are were good students in undergrad. After writing a paper, my friend would send it to like 5 different people to edit. They would look over her work, reading it with a scholarly eye. They would also correct grammar and whatever. My friend would re-write the paper until it was up to the standards of our friends. (She's never asked me to look over her work -- though I told her I would be willing to). Then she'd turn in the paper. Well, it makes no difference whether or not her papers are edited like that.....the professors still give her low grades. It doesn't matter how well she writes or how scholarly she is....she'll never meet their standards because her beliefs are "wrong." It's like they've put her into a little box, labeled it as "conservative = bad student," and won't let her out no matter what she does. If a professor is trying to get someone exposed to a different way of thinking, then they shouldn't grade off for people having different perspectives. They shouldn't let debates go on in classrooms in which one or two students are heavily attacked because of their position...and they definitely shouldn't join in on the attacks. They shouldn't get mad at students when they have different viewpoints, and then tell them that they're just wrong. Instead, they should be encouraging dialogue so that actual learning can take place. Getting into a yelling match with students and telling them that they're just wrong does not help learning.

    17 dec 2009, 14:31
  • ISoS

    I like the idea of a consent form. Then it's the persons own free will to receive heavily Christianized counseling. Which, as you know, in my very liberal world view, I think you have the right to do that (regardless if I think it's wrong). However, in your strategy I think you'd be pretty safe if you just stuck with the Bible. I know what you mean by you wouldn't tell them "you're not doing x in this passage", but you could still read and have them consider particular points. Maybe that would get them thinking about deeper about their problem. Maybe the NIV translation, that one actually seems pretty spot on, at least in the Bibles I've compared. The King James version in it's many iterations has been getting a little better, but I still find some of the word choices "questionable". The only problem I could see you running into is if you counseled someone like Mormons, where they have a Bible that is almost COMPLETELY different than the Old/New Testaments. Yet they still claim to be a denomination of Christianity. I think if you wind up having to counsel someone that is obsessed with silly people like Benny Hin or the guy you referenced, then sticking to what the Bible ACTUALLY says might help them a lot more. That's just how I think about solving those kinds of problems, because with preachers like that the problem might not be WITH the people, it might actually be with the Preacher telling them all kinds of nonsense. Now, I understand the problem with you and your friend when it comes to school. But I've given this a LOT of thought lately. You don't have to agree with me, but I'd be curious to see what you think. Now I've followed that Evolution vs. Intelligent Design/Creationism debate for a while now. I've gotten pretty informed. One of the major complaints the deeply religious seem to keep saying about college is that "it's supposed to be about freedom of inquiry" or something like that. After some consideration, I really don't think that's true at all. The purpose of a university is to give people a specific skill set, in the U.S. system we are usually required to have a pretty well rounded education. That means we need to be exposed to all kinds of different things. This means you can't have a single perspective on the world and JUST stick to it. Sometimes you have to give the teacher what they want even if you disagree. The whole purpose of the class is to teach you a subject, and it is not necessarily through a microscope that you will be allowed to view the subject. For example, if your friend believes that the world/universe was made 6,000 years ago by God, then this is factually false. This is totally a black & white issue and if a teacher tells her this then s/he is correct. It would actually be more damaging, especially in my opinion, to send her off into the workforce thinking it's okay to tell people about that as if it is a fact. Then the teacher is not doing his job by giving her factual information. I think as an undergrad people don't really understand that perspective. Secondly, I think a LOT of people don't understand what a professors job is. Most people seem to think it's a professors job to teach students, when in fact that is NOT what they are paid to do. A professor is actually paid to do research. Teaching is a secondary objective, which is why you could have a terrible teacher, but they will never lose their job. Why? Because they are excellent researches and that is where colleges wind up making most of their money. So if you have a heavily published teacher and they suck, you're stuck. College is NOT the place where you fight for your beliefs, it's where you put them on hold to learn whatever it is you signed up to learn. By you paying them you have agreed to learn by THEIR system. If you don't like it, go to a different college. This is the same idea that you have with your consent form. You consented to be taught this way, the school isn't there necessarily to teach you, it's there to perform high level research and publish documents, not teach you. Besides, no one is actually forcing you to go to college (though I do realize the dilemma of if you want a specific job you need college, but technically it's still "your choice" to go.) The point is, that when you leave school you have the necessary tools and skills to perform that "Freedom of Inquiry" I see people harp about SO much. There is actually a right and wrong way to go about doing this stuff, which is why amateurs aren't usually given the time of day by the collegiate level people. I know this is basically a "suck it up and deal with it" statement, but no one ever actually thinks about WHY, they just say it. What do you think? (PS: I'm an applied mathematics major, so often times the things I deal with are right or wrong, as there is usually only one answer. However, getting to the answer can be done multiple ways, so usually these kinds of arguments come in the form of "method" rather than conclusion. The various classes I take are to specifically learn different methods of solving problems logically. If a student only wants to use one way, they will get the problems wrong and fail. It's not that their answers are wrong, it's that they didn't bother to learn the method the class was teaching.)

    20 dec 2009, 17:41
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