Message from the Last.fm Staff

 
  • pedrobyo said:
    I agree with most of what has been said in this topic. However, I can see problems rising from these deletions. What would be Last.fm's policy about a group called "Anti-Homosexuality" or "White Supremacy", that defends their beliefs through rational argumentation and not just "mindless hatred"?


    The question is whether you can rationally defend these ideologies, though. What kind of arguments are you forced to ultimately bring up to support your stance? Most likely emotional ones, and those are not rational in nature. I mean, if we look at political groups who argue for exactly these ideas, they usually point to say, the danger of immigrants and blame immigrants for every single mistake a human can make, while overlooking the fact that an immigrant can also be a white person, and that a native can make such mistakes as well. Or what about homophobia? I cannot think of one rational argument why homosexuals should for example not marry. The claims that for example a homosexual couple raising children hurt the children has been debunked several times already, as there has so far been scientifcally nothing to support such a claim. Additionally, one can argue that raising a child in an environment that promotes white supremacy and homophobia can be more dangerous than a homosexual black couple.

  • Anyway, I think the huge influx of people is because Anath sent a mass message to all members about this to encourage people to not feed on the hate-mongering. If you want to do that, there are plenty of other sites and other groups that allow such things. I have always liked that we have had rational discussions going on here at the ACP, and to be frank, this was the primary reason I joined. Like others have said, let's keep it that way.

  • Hi,

    I have been together with Scyphe (Leader of Metal Against Islamism) the responsible of MAI Group. The group has been canceled with the same old politically correct mantra: hate group!

    Well, of course some hate in obvious when you are discussing about hatred oriented ideologies, like islam and islamism.

    What scared me (but just a little bit) is that most of lastfm moderators, totally ignore music itself always has been full of "hate" lyrics, what make me sadly laugh is that lastfm is a music oriented social network.... if they are not hypocritical a lot of music bands must be banned from lastfm...

    One of the most dangerous thing obscuring this deranged world is the political correctness that protect shameful ideologies and religions.

    Personally I don't really care about lastfm, it has been only a good battlefield, a good mean to spread the truth and fight for freedom of speech.

    Fight for freedom of speech and kill idiocy.

    Ciao

    • [Raderad användare] sa...
    • Användare
    • 10 apr 2010, 13:56
    all I have to say is that ever since last.fm has been acquired by that corporation it has been in a continuing process of decay. The membership of this site has changed a lot as it became more commercial, with a high degree of stupidity and teenage angst replacing intelligent discussions about music, bands and otherwise.

    I mean, let's look a little at the discussions going on in band shoutboxes. Most of them look like this:

    this band is sooooooooo great
    this band is sooooooooo great [2]
    this band is sooooooooo great [3]
    ....
    this band is sooooooooo great [2348723487]

    then someone comes along and says:

    fuck you, you are tools, this band fucking sucks

    then again the herd

    fuck you, you are tools, this band fucking sucks [2]
    fuck you, you are tools, this band fucking sucks [84238432772]

    Of course, the staff has no problem with this, because as long as they make cash out of these herds it's the more the merrier.

    The purpose of this so-called eradication of "hate groups" is to keep an atmosphere of "political correctness" and "peace" so it won't scare away potential customers who are obviously not able to handle a situation when someone says they are wrong or are freightened to actually see that someone on this earth actually holds opposite viewpoints or even view points that are in contradiction with the illusions of democracy and political correctness. HOLY SHIT !!! how can this be ??? NURSE, BRING SOME CENSORSHIP ! QUICK !

    • Overcow sa...
    • Användare
    • 10 apr 2010, 14:13
    I'm all for this, as long as Last.fm understand the difference between criticism and hate. Because really, if you just hate religion without any real argument, how on Earth are you better than them?

    • Juhizz sa...
    • Användare
    • 10 apr 2010, 15:45
    What about those anti-hate groups? I've heard that they hate hate-groups.

    • [Raderad användare] sa...
    • Användare
    • 10 apr 2010, 16:48
    KhaosWolf666 said:
    Hi,

    I have been together with Scyphe (Leader of Metal Against Islamism) the responsible of MAI Group. The group has been canceled with the same old politically correct mantra: hate group!

    Well, of course some hate in obvious when you are discussing about hatred oriented ideologies, like islam and islamism.

    What scared me (but just a little bit) is that most of lastfm moderators, totally ignore music itself always has been full of "hate" lyrics, what make me sadly laugh is that lastfm is a music oriented social network.... if they are not hypocritical a lot of music bands must be banned from lastfm...

    One of the most dangerous thing obscuring this deranged world is the political correctness that protect shameful ideologies and religions.

    Personally I don't really care about lastfm, it has been only a good battlefield, a good mean to spread the truth and fight for freedom of speech.

    Fight for freedom of speech and kill idiocy.

    Ciao

    This one really pisses me off. MAI was always filled with legitimate discussion about serious topics. There was no blind hatred, because one would have to be blind not to be concerned about some of the issues raised in the forums of that group.

    I'd like to know some of the other groups that were targeted because it seems to me Islam is getting special treatment once again. If this group was called the Anti-Muslim Phenomenon then you can bet your bottom dollar it would no longer exist.

    • [Raderad användare] sa...
    • Användare
    • 10 apr 2010, 17:51
    Bloody censorship.

  • Interesting, but I see a danger in this kind of behavior. Still, this is not the point of this (our) group and this thread. It is good that we haven't been deleted and can continue our exchange of experiences and views. Many of the entries here have been very interesting for me and I think they can be useful for a lot of other people too (not only "non-religious" people).

    Thanks Rage for letting us know about this.

  • Well, it's not a surprise, we should get used to being controlled.

    Vielen gefallen ist schlimm.
    • KopKilla sa...
    • Användare
    • 11 apr 2010, 02:18

    [spam]

    [spam]

    Redigerad av hjbardenhagen den 19 dec 2010, 13:14
  • They are the boss, and on internet you can only eat more shit then real life, so it's OK.

    "Tutto cade."

    Il popolo non dovrebbe avere paura di chi governa, ma è chi governa che dovrebbe avere paura del popolo.
  • The highest form of human intelligence is the ability to observe without judging "!

    "Chiamo cristianesimo la sola grande maledizione, la sola enorme perversione interiore: il solo grande istinto di rivincita per il quale nessun mezzo è troppo velenoso, clandestino, sotterraneo e meschino. Lo chiamo macchia immortale dell'umanità."
  • Wild_KarrdeThis one really pisses me off. MAI was always filled with legitimate discussion about serious topics. There was no blind hatred, because one would have to be blind not to be concerned about some of the issues raised in the forums of that group.

    I'd like to know some of the other groups that were targeted because it seems to me Islam is getting special treatment once again. If this group was called the Anti-Muslim Phenomenon then you can bet your bottom dollar it would no longer exist.


    Scyphe and I are planning to create a new group, again critical against islam, we will try to "respect" the hypocritical rules of lastfm, but we will be back really soon! Our mission is to underline the danger of a particular religion/ideology like islam is.

    See you soon.

  • I am glad Last Fm can see the difference.

  • I hope the standards are the same for every group. Also, I must say that I strongly encourage you to keep a strong moderation going, so it does not become mindless hatred.
    is pretty much a call on censorship. Obviously we can delete topics that are against the group's (or last.fm's) policy, but personally, I would find it too much to censor the shoutbox for example.

    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
    • Waldheri sa...
    • Användare
    • 11 apr 2010, 14:36
    It's silly, because we've never needed to resort to strong moderation. If things are fine according to the mods now, we needn't implement any changes in moderation policy.

    Meshuggah: "A combination of the powerful and the avant-garde, the band is as visceral and imposing an act as you’ll ever see and hear, guitarists Fredrik Thordendal, Mårten Hagström, and bassist Dick Lövgren hammering out lurching, monolithic riffs as they headbang in robotic unison, vocalist Jens Kidman barking out surreal verses like a twisted drill sergeant while gesticulating like a puppet on strings. - Adrien Begrand (PopMatters)
    • jorrizza sa...
    • Användare
    • 11 apr 2010, 14:46
    There's no real definable line between hate speech and proper discussion. It's just impossible to determine whether a certain argument deliberately tries to hurt people. This is such a non-issue. What gives the Last.fm admins the moral high ground to even think they know the difference?

    In my opinion the only moderation (if any) should be done retroactively, after someone has complained about hate speech and it has been verified by moderators. If Last.fm still operates under UK law, there is no legislation that I know of forcing them to introduce censorship like this. I can only think of one reason, really. CBS.

    Sure, they've done a great job over the years. Keeping this site running and all. I'm not trying to spread hate speech towards our admins. (Argh, I don't like having to point this out explicitly. But with sensitivities like these one can't be too careful!) I'm just trying to make a point against this anti-hate speech campaign.

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  • I assume they told us to "keep a strong moderation going" because they assumed we already did have strong moderation-- that's the only way you could have an Anti-group that hasn't transformed into a hate group? The fact is though, that we have no banned members and only two instances of "strong-moderate" moderation in our history, and those times only being due to trolls, not our "own".

    What I am REALLY curious about, is directed at the leaders of the groups that were axed. Did the staff provide a warning - "clean up or you're out", or any reasons? Or did you just find your group GONE when you logged in?

    There's no problem a few frag grenades can't fix.

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  • I don't think admins see difference between "hate" and objective criticism. Many deleted groups specifically stated that they are not "hate" groups, but got deleted only because they had "anti" or "against" in their name.
    Also there is different treatment for things that are "anti". We don't see antifacists getting banned and their groups deleted, although they openly promote violence and criminal activities, let alone constant breaking the terms of conduct on the website.
    IMo its just a group of admins with far-left political views on personal crusade against anything they disagree with.

  • Metal Against Islamism was not a hate group, our discussion area was full of articles, taken from the web, newspapers and books. They just only used some idiot comment in the shoutbox as a justification to delete MAI. The real reason is that an open ANTI Islamism/islam group is something far from the politically correctness they want. We used quran verses to show and demonstrate the deep hate within islam, we tried to keep an high level of information, accepting also different political positions. We never applied censorship to our members, we kept the freedom of speech as inviolable. LastFM stupidly and blindly close MAI, without any other information. A low cultured moderator, without any cultural background is totally unable to fully understand what means deleting a group where a discussion was in progress, even if sometimes with rude words.
    I call this attitude simply as IDIOCY and I see also a well defined plan under it, cancel any form of islam criticism. Again we will be back soon.

  • I was impressed by the staff letter.

    There's a huge difference between informed discussion and ranting and name-calling, which is what most Etah groups do.

  • Any newsletter coming up on occcassion?
    This may sound like I'm just another lazy hang-aroun (quite possibly true, also), but I simply can't be arsed to keep myself updated on various forums.
    Especially not those whose member-amount exceeds nine thousand and one or more.
    So.. Anything interesting and worth checking ever taking place here, or should I just stick to keeping tACP as a banner for support?

    • afz902k sa...
    • Användare
    • 12 apr 2010, 04:52
    I'd blame this on Jews but then I guess I'd endanger this group's survival. Guys, Jews are not to blame for this.

    (Not a serious comment, by the way)

    I never mean what I post.
  • Hmm, well, everyone posting on this topic has pretty much echoed my thoughts on the matter. However, censorship is censorship. The last.fm administrators are walking a fine line here between protecting the last.fm site from 'bigotry' and just following the old, worn, pc path, the road of the weak.

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