Message from the Last.fm Staff

 
  • Message from the Last.fm Staff

    Today, I received this message from a Staff member.


    The Antichristian Phenomenon group

    Hi,

    As you might have heard, some anti-religion groups have been deleted recently. I have been looking at your group as well, and a few things are beyond what I would normally authorise, but most of the contents are discussion orientated and not just plain bashing and hatred. This is the reason why I am not deleting this group. But I strongly encourage you to keep a strong moderation going, so it does not become mindless hatred.

    As an example, "Metal against Islamism group was deleted... BASTARDS!" and "Oh good grief. Stupid bastards, creating a mass of groups for exactly the same thing. That's just confusing." are the kind of things I would rather not want to see appearing.




    I am posting this publicly to inform everyone that we are being watched very closely, along with many other groups, but also to help everyone realize that the Staff is not being entirely unreasonable. Some of you may be unhappy with the decisions the Staff have made in deleting groups. If this is the case, please take it up with them, not in here.

    Do not forget that because we stand for unpopular and controversial (but ultimately positive) things, we naturally come under more scrutiny than those who may stand for and practice bigotry, but hide under the banners of love, puppies, and rainbows. It is unfortunate, but if we follow our shared ideals of reason, we will remain blameless.

    Thank you for continuing to ensure that the ACP is a constructive, discussion oriented place--approved by the staff. Keep up the good work.

    -Anath

    There's no problem a few frag grenades can't fix.

    Cookies for Godlessness
    My Twin in life, love, mind, and music: ISoS
    The snake that cannot shed its skin perishes. So do the spirits who are prevented from changing their opinions; they cease to be spirit. -Nietzsche
    • Larro72 sa...
    • Användare
    • 9 apr 2010, 22:03
    Kudos to Last.fm staff! They obviously know bigotry when they see it.

  • Thanks for the message, RoA. I fully support deleting mindless hate groups and I also fully support the notion that we can express our non-support and dislike of a thing without it turning into mindless hatred.

    You also make an excellent point about happy, fluffy-shaped bigotry.

  • Finally, immature "hate" getting deleted from last.fm. This leaves more field for intellectuality :).

    • luxxnn sa...
    • Användare
    • 9 apr 2010, 23:03
    Totaly agree with everybody beeing against those "hate"-groups, but i hope last.fm keeps on seperating good from bad groups, and don`t just delet every group with "anti" or "against" in it :)


    Was nützt dir Macht wenn du niemandend hast der dich liebt und dich wärmt in der nacht
    • pedrobyo sa...
    • Användare
    • 9 apr 2010, 23:16
    I agree with most of what has been said in this topic. However, I can see problems rising from these deletions. What would be Last.fm's policy about a group called "Anti-Homosexuality" or "White Supremacy", that defends their beliefs through rational argumentation and not just "mindless hatred"?

  • finally some stupid groups have been deleted... but hoping Last.fm doesn't become optuse as oter sites... -.-''' maybe should we put Atheism?? anyway, hoping they're not deleting us, since we're not racists -.-'

    _Tes baisers ressusciteraient Le cadavre de ton vampire_
    • [Raderad användare] sa...
    • Användare
    • 10 apr 2010, 00:17
    pedrobyo said:
    What would be Last.fm's policy about a group called "Anti-Homosexuality" or "White Supremacy", that defends their beliefs through rational argumentation and not just "mindless hatred"?


    That's a great point made. I hope the groups that promote battle through thought and reasoning upon (what they classify as) ideologies rather than battle through violence and blind hatred upon people themselves will be separated from one other. I am not really active in this group, so I do not know if much of the latter occurs here, but it doesn't seem so.

  • pedrobyo said:
    I agree with most of what has been said in this topic. However, I can see problems rising from these deletions. What would be Last.fm's policy about a group called "Anti-Homosexuality" or "White Supremacy", that defends their beliefs through rational argumentation and not just "mindless hatred"?


    I'd be very interested to see "rational argumentation" in such groups... white supremacy or homophobia is imo harder to rationalise than an anti-religious sentiment. But if there was rational discussion in such a group, then I guess it should still be allowed under strict conditions.

    We are all brothers in metal, we already rule the world now
  • colourofsleep said:
    pedrobyo said:
    I agree with most of what has been said in this topic. However, I can see problems rising from these deletions. What would be Last.fm's policy about a group called "Anti-Homosexuality" or "White Supremacy", that defends their beliefs through rational argumentation and not just "mindless hatred"?


    I'd be very interested to see "rational argumentation" in such groups... white supremacy or homophobia is imo harder to rationalise than an anti-religious sentiment. But if there was rational discussion in such a group, then I guess it should still be allowed under strict conditions.


    I'm sure you're already aware of how often people use their privately-held beliefs (religious or otherwise) as the basis for rational argument on white supremacy and homophobia. The fact that such beliefs are so difficult to openly critique (particularly in the current political context) makes these arguments seem all the more "rational" anyway; to say otherwise might seem politically or socially insensitive.

  • What ever happened to freedom of speech?

  • USA against Islam. kthnx.

  • i agree.. if we're gonna hate we should so intellectually.. and great remark about hiding under banners of love / peace, while remaining bigots hahahaha

    "The only afterlife is the reputation you leave behind""
    • [Raderad användare] sa...
    • Användare
    • 10 apr 2010, 02:57
    Unbelievable.

  • BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING

  • This should be stickied for a couple of weeks.

  • Sweet stuff

  • the ones who claim they spread "Love" around the world are most likely to be concerned by the deleting of "hate" groups... sad for them, funny for us.
    We promote use of reason instead of faith, and therefore are open to discussion, and respect ! let our goup keep this way

    Heavy Metal is the law!
    摇滚至死!
    • afz902k sa...
    • Användare
    • 10 apr 2010, 05:23
    I myself don't agree with the deletion of any groups at all, because I believe in freedom of speech. Having said that, I don't really mind last.fm deleting certain groups because there are always other more free places to express yourself. This is after all a music website. I just hope they don't start censoring artists, that would be a shame and a huge mistake.

    Regarding this specific group, this is obviously not a hate group. Let's keep it that way.

    I never mean what I post.
    • ozku18 sa...
    • Användare
    • 10 apr 2010, 07:51
    Usually these "haters" are:
    A) Trolls
    B) Stupid People
    C) Kids

    So, fine by me. No more mass concentrations of people like this in the internet that just chew s*it and agitate people.

    • Waldheri sa...
    • Användare
    • 10 apr 2010, 08:30
    Wow, lots of people in the ACP forum that I've never seen before. I guess the staff has really been busy with cleaning up some groups. In any case, welcome to all who wish to discuss these matters here; and perhaps you will find this a nice group to discuss other things as well.

    Is there a list of groups that have been removed? I've only heard about the "Metal against Islamism" group having been deleted, but what were the others?

    Personally, I wouldn't want to delete any group, even though I thought they were hate-mongering. But this is not my website, and I also believe that the people who run last.fm (or any other people running any other website, for that matter) have the right to make decisions as to the content they wish to host and which not.

    Meshuggah: "A combination of the powerful and the avant-garde, the band is as visceral and imposing an act as you’ll ever see and hear, guitarists Fredrik Thordendal, Mårten Hagström, and bassist Dick Lövgren hammering out lurching, monolithic riffs as they headbang in robotic unison, vocalist Jens Kidman barking out surreal verses like a twisted drill sergeant while gesticulating like a puppet on strings. - Adrien Begrand (PopMatters)
  • Our group is made of intelligent people, not haters!

    • Methis sa...
    • Användare
    • 10 apr 2010, 08:48
    It's also important to note that the last.fm staff are responcible for the content of their servers, and that the content of those servers is subject to the law of whatever country they're stationed in. Meaning, if the country's law forbids hate mongering, they simply cannot allow such activities as they can be fined for it and even have the site taken down entirely (see the BitTorrent networks. The only reason that The Pirate Bay is holding up is because Sweden, where their servers are stationed, does not forbid such practises).
    So that might be a factor in this.

    I agree with Waldheri that it's interesting to see how a lot of people who are not generally active in the group are posting here all of a sudden, haha.

    At any rate, we'll see where this goes. If worst comes to worst, we can always migrate over to the ACP site. Perhaps implement a type of shoutbox there?
    If they do disband this group, however, I think a serious talk needs to be had with the staff about the religious groups as well, because after all, they are among the greatest hate mongers of all time.
    OF ALL TIME.

    "Blessed are we without a god."
    • Waldheri sa...
    • Användare
    • 10 apr 2010, 08:55
    Yeah, if things can't continue like they always have then we should probably move to the ACP website. We can just install some forum software and found a forum there. It would be too bad though, because we have quite a nice history here.

    Meshuggah: "A combination of the powerful and the avant-garde, the band is as visceral and imposing an act as you’ll ever see and hear, guitarists Fredrik Thordendal, Mårten Hagström, and bassist Dick Lövgren hammering out lurching, monolithic riffs as they headbang in robotic unison, vocalist Jens Kidman barking out surreal verses like a twisted drill sergeant while gesticulating like a puppet on strings. - Adrien Begrand (PopMatters)
    • br5k sa...
    • Användare
    • 10 apr 2010, 09:32
    This group is ok and its fine.

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