Do we even want Atheist/Christian Discussions here?

 
  • Do we even want Atheist/Christian Discussions here?

    As some may have noticed there are some new Discussions about Sense and Nonsense of Christianity and Religion in general taking place in this forum.

    Now, do we even want such Discussions?

    I'm not sure if this group is the right place to give such Discussions room. It's not that I don't like serious Discussions questioning my belief or that I feel disturbed by it. But to be honest I'd like to see this group as Community of Christian Music Lovers. I want to leave room for Discussions, but I'm not sure about mentioned kinds.

    This Group says Jesus rocks! and I originally meant this group to be a Christian Music Only group. I knew very well that Discussions not connected with music, but our Christian Beliefs would come up and that's ok, but I'm not sure if we should make this Group Forum free for Discussions doubting this Christian Belief as there are a lot other places to discuss them.

    Now, do you want to tolerate these Discussions or do you rather want to forbid them?

    PS: I'm completly fine with the way those not christian users are behaving and about them having different beliefs. This is just about the concept of this group.

  • .....

    You are the leader and it all depends on how you view this group. I personally think of it as more then just a music group, in my opinion limiting it to just a music group is ummm very limiting :P. On the other hand there are all kinds of christian groups on last.fm which have discussions going on between christians and non-christians. I hope that this group will not become one of those. I am not scared of these discussions or what non-believers have to say either, it's just that such dicussions turn into circular debates as the athiests/agnostics seek to prove God wrong with their "logic" and "reasoning".


    Never once have I seen a non-christian join a debate to learn more about God or to follow Christ, their only goal is to prove how stupid belief in God is and how rational it is to deny Him. Do what you must but these debates are never productive and ever once have I seen anyone proving the existence of God or Jesus wrong, so I don't see the point.

    • bizzarri sa...
    • Användare
    • 11 aug 2007, 13:07
    Well I agree these discussions will pop up sooner or later. I also think this isn't nessesarily a bad thing. But like Fallingup (I completely agree with your post) said non-christians don't join these debates to learn. There's 3 discussions now and all 3 will end up with the same questions or accusation even, and will indeed become circular debates.
    I think you, as leader, should watch out there won't be to much of these discussion. I think a few, like now, doesn't hurt the concept of this group, if you agree otherwise I also totaly understand.

    • rooie666 sa...
    • Användare
    • 11 aug 2007, 21:28
    could someone link to groups that have those atheist/christian discussions ?

    i can promise i wont end discussions here with accusations and in a way i start them to learn, not so much about God or following christ as well about people who are firm believers.

    i do agree that most discussions will end in our agreement to disagree, but maybe we might have learned in the process of discussing.

    Dus.
  • rooie666 said:
    i do agree that most discussions will end in our agreement to disagree, but maybe we might have learned in the process of discussing.


    I mean no direspect here at all but I don't agree because I have never learnt a thing from such discussions. This is not because athiests/agnostics are stupid, on the contrary a lot of there questions are well thought out and their curiosity is admirable but once the debate kicks in they use their misunderstandings and misconceptions of christianity to prove it wrong. If your going to debate christianity with me atleast know your doctrine or basic concepts. I have walked out of most of these debates having learnt that athiests/agnostics sometimes lack knowledge of biblical concepts, historical, archaelogical and scholarly evidence.

    • bizzarri sa...
    • Användare
    • 12 aug 2007, 12:05
    Fallingup1986 said:
    rooie666 said:
    i do agree that most discussions will end in our agreement to disagree, but maybe we might have learned in the process of discussing.


    I mean no direspect here at all but I don't agree because I have never learnt a thing from such discussions.


    I don't think you have to learn anything from athiests. If they learn from 'us' Christians, thats what we want right? If one out of hundred people is indeed interrested and becomes Christian through these kind of discussion it was worth it. The question remains if we want those discussions on this forum or someone else.

  • If you're looking for some Threads about such religious questions/critiques check wimme's Profile at the left, there are several of such.

    Alright, I think it's better we'll stop such discussions on our forum. I'll let some days pass, let's say a week and those threads will get closed and later removed, as they could 'provocate' users to open new threads about not answered questions in these topics.

    So from now on, no more Discussions between non-Christians/Atheists and Christians are allowed in this forum, please respect this.

    I will make a sticky note in the forum so everyone will know.

  • Thanx Triliader - I actually couldn't agree with the people here more (unlike what some may think :P).

    I have not once seen an atheist/anti-Christian/agnostic join one of those debates to learn, and the outcome of it is almost always destructive, because of the nature of the debates (arguing etc).

    I have actually, unlike Fallingup, learnt something from these debates: when it comes right down to it, the ones promoting tolerance and humanism, (you should be good to everyone) secular people, atheists etc, aren't usually very tolerant. Some even post harsh and rude (and offensive) stuff. I have also learnt that some of the most stubborn people I know, and who are the most un-willing to learn, are atheists, agnostics, anti-Christians etc, claiming they want to learn and "broaden their horizon".
    From my experience, in 99% of the cases (again, my experience) at least one of the above things mensioned apply.

    God bless you,
    I'm praying for ya.
    -Kirsty

    • rooie666 sa...
    • Användare
    • 13 aug 2007, 22:42
    thanks for the link to wimme,
    not that it got me anywhere

    i think it's a pity though,
    especially for those people who said they never gained something form discussions with atheists
    but after all it's triliader's group,
    i wish you all the best, but i'll leave you
    to your own then

    Dus.
    • rooie666 sa...
    • Användare
    • 13 aug 2007, 22:42
    thanks for the link to wimme,
    not that it got me anywhere

    i think it's a pity though,
    especially for those people who said they never gained something form discussions with atheists
    but after all it's triliader's group,
    i wish you all the best, but i'll leave you
    to your own then

    Dus.
  • If you look at Christians at Last.FM, there's some discussions :). Basically, every Christian group has during it's time been attacked by Anti-Christians one or more times, and some have kept the discussions.

    • -Reaper- sa...
    • Användare
    • 14 aug 2007, 16:42
    Kjersti454 said:
    If you look at Christians at Last.FM, there's some discussions :). Basically, every Christian group has during it's time been attacked by Anti-Christians one or more times, and some have kept the discussions.


    Thanks, I'll look at that group for discussion instead.

    Assailants propagate the schism
    Black metal will continue; as long as Judeo-Christian ideals exist,
    so will the need to oppose them with art.

    Death Metal Black Metal The Antichristian Phenomenon
    Truest Metal Fans Porn Request underground BM here
    • blabbers sa...
    • Användare
    • 17 aug 2007, 10:19
    oh well. finally, i must say. haha. it was getting tiring.

    to move closer next to you. (:
    • [Raderad användare] sa...
    • Användare
    • 18 aug 2007, 18:03
    you should also consider jesus and the stars

    there is a lot to learn, not always from discussions because it all depends on the people "arguing". but there's not much people capable of performing a real discussion rather than just get into fights without backing up what they say.

    • db0 sa...
    • Användare
    • 19 aug 2007, 00:23
    Kjersti454 said:
    If you look at Christians at Last.FM, there's some discussions :). Basically, every Christian group has during it's time been attacked by Anti-Christians one or more times, and some have kept the discussions.


    Golden, just golden! I just had to join to comment on this.
    You make it sound is as if we invade Christian groups by force and, by the might our swords, kill the men and rape the women!

    I honestly don't understand this Christian persecution complex...

    I also find it amusing that you have a "discussion forum" in which you do not want discussions to take place. I gather that it's a forum filled with "list threads", ie. threads where everyone lists his favorite thing or other and doesn't actually "discuss".

    I would invite, those philosophicaly inclined to check The Antichristian Phenomenon forum but since you need to join first I don't think many of you will. Another option is to go the The ACP site, where you can comment and debate on articles.

    Your final choice is indeed the Christians @ Last.fm forum which we've been lately..."attacking" (LoL)

    See you.

    It is fortunate that what is necessary, is easy to acquire and what is difficult to have, is not necessary - Epicurus.
    Whenever you get randomly killed, the simplest and most logical solution is that it was probably ninja - Occam's Katana.


  • db0, if you look at the history of the discussions you're so fond of, you will see that they have almost always been started by ACP people, even though not necessarily every thread was physically started by ACPers, that's what happened.

  • I also find it amusing that you have a "discussion forum" in which you do not want discussions to take place. I gather that it's a forum filled with "list threads", ie. threads where everyone lists his favorite thing or other and doesn't actually "discuss".
    Look at our forum first, before bringing such a critique...

    • blabbers sa...
    • Användare
    • 19 aug 2007, 13:20
    so anti-christians topics are the only discussions you can think of?

    wow.

    to move closer next to you. (:
    • wimme sa...
    • Användare
    • 9 sep 2007, 22:39
    Triliader said:
    If you're looking for some Threads about such religious questions/critiques check wimme's Profile at the left, there are several of such.

    Alright, I think it's better we'll stop such discussions on our forum. I'll let some days pass, let's say a week and those threads will get closed and later removed, as they could 'provocate' users to open new threads about not answered questions in these topics.


    Don't remove threads, some of my posts take an awful lot of work to make. I don't like them to be lost.

    • bizzarri sa...
    • Användare
    • 10 sep 2007, 12:14
    I agree with Wimme. Some people might also actually learn from it when they read the topics. But I am afraid those topics are already gone Wimme.

  • well that's why I don't allow everyone to post something in my group, there is member approval, and when I see some 'smart dude' listening to his 'uber-cool' death metal satan worhsipping ass music,I reject him. My group exists to praise God, I don't want some dumb dudes to talk about someone who they don't know...I think you should do that too... God bless

  • Satan worshipping is bad. But Death Metal has nothing to do with that. Just to correct that.

    • db0 sa...
    • Användare
    • 11 okt 2007, 07:31
    If you do not care to discuss your religion in this group, then why did you make religion the central focus of your group? If you are only interested in praising "Jeeeezus", don't you find it similar to closing your ears and going "lalalala I can't hear youuuu!"?

    I still find the difference amusing. Antichristian or Anti-religion groups are always glad to discuss religion if anyone cares to bring up the subject. We are not afraid of your opinion and usually we have points to back up our positions. On the other hand, most Christian groups have this exact policy of preventing discussions thay would create controversy or make people think. Like Churches, you guys are just trying to preserve the groupthink in order to stop people from learning the truth.

    You could at least leave one thread labeled something like "Discuss arguments against Christianity here" so that people who wanted to keep their eyes shut could avoid. In any case, none of this matters since what you are doing is just classic behaviour from the religious that most Anti-christians have come to expect and this is only a small group in a social site.

    It is fortunate that what is necessary, is easy to acquire and what is difficult to have, is not necessary - Epicurus.
    Whenever you get randomly killed, the simplest and most logical solution is that it was probably ninja - Occam's Katana.


  • db0 said:
    If you do not care to discuss your religion in this group, then why did you make religion the central focus of your group? If you are only interested in praising "Jeeeezus", don't you find it similar to closing your ears and going "lalalala I can't hear youuuu!"?


    I'll speak for myself when I say this but Jesus is the most important person in my life so yes I am only interested in praising Him, that does not mean I close my ears and don't listen to people who argue against christianity, infact I see and hear attacks or critiscism of christianity on a day to day basis wether I like to hear and see it or not. So this group does not show that we are closing our eyes and ears.

    db0 said:
    I still find the difference amusing. Antichristian or Anti-religion groups are always glad to discuss religion if anyone cares to bring up the subject. We are not afraid of your opinion and usually we have points to back up our positions. On the other hand, most Christian groups have this exact policy of preventing discussions thay would create controversy or make people think. Like Churches, you guys are just trying to preserve the groupthink in order to stop people from learning the truth.


    The problem is that antichristians don't want to accept any points presented to them, I personally am open to any point an anti-christian wants to make. Some forums don't allow these discussions because they end up being circular not because we are preventing people from learning the "truth". And yes antichristian groups dicuss christianity because they will jump at the chance to prove it wrong. Christian groups on the other hand are getting tired of discussing because of the circular arguements mentioned above and because we live to praise our God not argue with people who just want to prove christianity wrong

    db0 said:
    You could at least leave one thread labeled something like "Discuss arguments against Christianity here" so that people who wanted to keep their eyes shut could avoid. In any case, none of this matters since what you are doing is just classic behaviour from the religious that most Anti-christians have come to expect and this is only a small group in a social site.


    Triliader made it clear why he does not want discussions here sorry if that bothers you, and sorry if our "classic behaviour" is what you have come to accept but the feeling is mutual. Antichristians feel the itching need to prove christianity wrong with tired arguements and when they dont get their way they call theists blind. That is a classical athiest/agnostic/antichristian behavioural pattern.

    • [Raderad användare] sa...
    • Användare
    • 24 feb 2008, 09:35
    db0 the problem isnt always from us as you seem to believe.

    I suggest you check my profile and look into my forum posts and you will see for yourself a member of your group namely ISos has in the past trolled past threads when it came to debate over God and religeon. Of coarse when I went to the anti christian phenomenom forum the first thing I see is a posting in the main forum heading page saying this group takes no responsibility for the actions of its members. How quaint. Then in the shoutbox of your forum i see the comment from one of your members and i quote 'ENOUGH TALK LETS GO BURN SOME CHURCHES'

    With stuff like that CAN YOU REALLY BLAME US for being suspicious of you and your members? I have just joined this forum and I dont approve of this rule AT ALL. I also point out that your forum shares part of the blame. There has been ATTACKS on christian forums by some of your members Ive seen it.

    If you really want open debate I suggest you learn to control some of your membership and kick out the trolls. You have a responsibility for the actions of your members just like the owners here have when it comes to their members.

    Next....these are not my words people so dont get mad at me. Im sick and tired of seeing users from the anti christian phenomenom putting up posts where at the bottom they have crap like F God F Christ etc. You want to debate us STOP insulting our God and acting stupidly and maybe we will take you seriously.

    And finally dbo I have no reservations in defending my faith whatsoever. I have done so many times since Ive joined LastFm. In one of your past posts dbo you said we dont want people to think and know the truth. One thing I will tell you right now though is that GOD IS TRUTH. You want to reject that belief then the problem is yours not mine.

    There see people me and dbo are debating God. And I have no complaints about it and I CAN hold my own against him. We all can. There is nothing to fear from these people.

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