The Pogues : Fake Celtic music.

 
  • The Pogues : Fake Celtic music.

    Shane MacGowan, the singer of the Pogues, complains about the British occupation of Ireland, yet he was schooled and lived most of his early life in London, UK.

    And also, to be honest, any Irish band who go and play gigs in America every night are traitors.

    The Pogues have forgotten their roots.

    B-YAH!
  • Aw, mate, don't you think that's pushing it a bit too far?

    So what if he lived in London? He's a London Irish, like many other people. Aren't they allowed to feel angry and frustrated over what'd been happening in the NI? How about the other expatriate Irish? Larkin are from Oklahoma, yet they sing Broad Black brimmer, Merry Ploughboy and whatnot. Brendan Behan spent most of his life outside Ireland, yet he wrote about Ireland. Athenrye are from Glasgow, and they are a rebel band (and I love their work, btw).


    Besides, I think you have to keep in mind that The Pogues are not only a Celtic band but a Celtic punk rock band; Shane's life is a life of a punk rocker, not an Irish freedom fighter, and that's a fact. That's how it's always been with him, as far as I'm able to figure out. Read his bio. Read Bob Geldof's Essay on the Pogues. That doesn't make him a traitor, imo. Shane is no soldier, no politician - he's an artist. Everyone does what they can, what they are talented for.

    Shane and The Pogues invented Celtic punk (which I'm immensely grateful for), and made something that I consider wonderful music. But they are not a rebel band (like Irish Brigade or Athenrye or whoever) - they play celtic punk and rock. They're about rebellion, but, like other punk bands, it's also a rebellion in general, against the society, against the world, against everything; also, criticism, anger, getting drunk and whatnot. The lyrics are down an dirty, lyrical, cynical, drunkenly sentimental, and incredibly laid back. It's Celtic punk ;) IMO, that doesn't make it a fake.
    (What's more, and this is entirely subjective, to me their music sounds incredibly honest and heartfelt, and ditto for the lyrics).

    I do not think they have forgotten their roots, they have merged them; they have incorporated both Ireland and London into their music. That doesn't make them traitors in my eyes (but hey, we all have different opinions, don't we?). I just want to say: they never were your typical Irish rebel band; they are... what they are. I do not think they have betrayed that :)

    And, umm, I must say I fail to see the connection between touring in the U.S. and being a traitor, but maybe that's just me.

    Just my 0.02$ :))

    Oh, and btw -
    The Pogues are probably my favourite band ever, and have been so since I was 12. I love them. I'm probably being very biased here.



    My town is big, and my town is bright,
    My town can work, and my town can fight!
    • [Raderad användare] sa...
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    • 16 apr 2007, 16:32
    TheMilkMan69 said:
    Shane MacGowan, the singer of the Pogues, complains about the British occupation of Ireland, yet he was schooled and lived most of his early life in London, UK.

    And also, to be honest, any Irish band who go and play gigs in America every night are traitors.

    The Pogues have forgotten their roots.


    Shane MacGowan started The Pogues because he wanted to remind the Irish in London of their roots, so you can't say "They've forgotten their roots", that's rubbish. Kip in, you don't know what you're talking about.

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    • 17 apr 2007, 18:09
    In their defence.. It should also be noted that in the DVD, The Shane MacGowan Story (If I Should Fall With Grace), it speaks about his childhood and how his father raised him on Irish folk songs, and it shows the home in Ireland (Tipperary, I believe) where his grandmother lived, where he spent every summer growing up.

    • wh33z3r sa...
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    • 9 maj 2007, 22:44
    TheMilkMan69 said:
    Shane MacGowan, the singer of the Pogues, complains about the British occupation of Ireland, yet he was schooled and lived most of his early life in London, UK.

    And also, to be honest, any Irish band who go and play gigs in America every night are traitors.

    The Pogues have forgotten their roots.


    so your saying all celts in america are bad?

    -I pwn n00bs-
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    • 13 maj 2007, 23:28
    The lad just doesn't know what he's talking about.

  • farcical

    Either this fellow is just trying to take the piss, or he is completely ignorant of all things Irish. Anyone who cares to make comments in a forum dedicated to “Irish Republican Solidarity” should be sure to check their history first. Let’s start with 1916, shall we? Is anyone going to insist that DeValera wasn’t a real Irish republican because he claimed American citizenship? How about James Connolly? He fought and died for our independence. He was the father of republican socialism. Will anyone cast doubt on his sincerity because he was born and raised in Scotland, or because he appealed to the US for support?

    Want something more recent? How about Sean Mac Stíofáin? The London-born lad was Chief of Staff for the Provos after the break from the Officials. Anything to say about his loyalty?

    As far as touring America making the Pogues “traitors,” I can’t even begin to fathom how ignorant of Irish history someone has to be in order to make this claim. There is not a single country on the planet that has offered more support to the cause (both moral and financial). The Fenians were from America, for Christ’s sake.

    To tie things up, the absurdity of the initial post in this thread is underscored by the assertion that the Pogues “have forgotten their roots.” Is it not the very definition of “remembering one’s roots” to know where one’s family originated, and then to remain loyal to that history and culture? Seems to me that this is exactly what the Pogues have done.

    This milkman69 has obviously just discovered his Irishness, and hasn’t put in the effort to find out what it means yet. Think before you speak, lad. Or better yet, read a book.

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    • 24 maj 2007, 16:34
    The most ironic part is that he takes the piss at Shane for living and being schooled in London, yet if you look at themilkman69's profile, he's from Birmingham. Those who live in glass houses should not cast stones.

  • He also has the Wolfe Tones as one of his top artists. I've seen them many times here in America! Are they traitors as well?!?

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    • 8 jun 2007, 15:20
    BostonIrish said:
    He also has the Wolfe Tones as one of his top artists. I've seen them many times here in America! Are they traitors as well?!?


    they're not traitors... but their last couple of albumbs have been really touristy :(

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    • 16 jul 2007, 21:37
    i've heard there are more irish in america than there are in ireland. can't prove it, but if you go to towns like ny, boston, and chicago you'd believe it might be true.

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    • 19 jul 2007, 19:37
    Taocore, I don't believe that makes sense.

    If you live in America, and were born and raised in America, you are not technically Irish. You can be Irish-American if you are about 2nd and 3rd generation, but after that, remember that America is the melting pot of the world's cultures and blood lines. So, the majority of those that are of Irish diaspora living in America are not only of Irish descent, but they can also be Scottish, German, English, Cherokee, Dutch, and so forth.

    "Irish" denotes someone who is a citizen of the Republic of Ireland, or was born and raised in Ireland or Northern Ireland, or has parents or grandparents from the island.

    There is a line between Irishman, Irish-American, and those with Irish ancestors. You are Irish, if you'd like to call yourself that based on your blood lines, I suppose. There is no problem with that, embracing your heritage and culture is a good thing to do. But, there is a larger population of Irish diaspora and those actually closely from Ireland living in areas such as Liverpool, Glasgow, London, Birmingham, Edinburgh, Manchester, etc. The UK would have more Irish than the USA would.

    There are areas of the USA that have large populations of Irish and those of Irish descent. NYC is the biggest one in America, with heavily Irish areas such as Hell's Kitchen and Greenwich Village in Harlem. Then of course you have Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, and areas of Boston and nearby such as Quincy, Southie, Dorchester, etc.

    You can be of Irish diaspora, such as those families who left the island during periods such as the potato famine or the civil war, but a lot of the blood lines are now diluted and mixed to the point where these lads are not just Irish but also 15 different things. So honestly, how Irish is that really?

    Can you really have more Irish living in another place than Ireland? I don't think so.

  • What I want to know is this?

    I totally agree with Sixpigeons, money, and hello the FENIANS lest we not forget came from those who did not forget their brethren back home. But that is another story.

    In America, especially early America. Cousin marriage was just as prevalent as Europe. Which I find quite strange because my grandmother always knew she was Irish, my grandfather did not, and his mother didn't want him to marry my grandmother because she was Irish. Guess what, I am a genealogist and they were distant cousins really distant but I found it. I always knew my grandfather was of Irish descent even though I never knew him. I was a history major, and back to the Earls of Ormande is how they were related. One Catholic(Richard Butler), one Protesant(James Butler). I believe my grandmother knew because she hid her Catholicism from her own husband. He passed first, she still hid it from us until she had a Catholic funeral, and we are Catholic???

    I consider myself of Irish descent, of course I know I don't live in Ireland. I have never drank a green beer, seen a dyed green river or thought a leprechaun was a beer chugging mascot.

    However, since many groups that talk on this subject state the fact that Irish is because "they" live in Ireland, I ask the question, why have you just diminished your Culture to living in a place?

    My ancestors were FORCED out, especially the really early ancestors. The little later one's came from Donegal. FOUGHT in the REVOLUTIONARY WAR against Britain. Some of my ancestors were brought here as Indentures if not Slaves, yes there were Slaves in the US in Colonial America that were Irish, maybe you all don't have respect for Sean O'Callaghan born 1918 not born 1954 who wrote the book to Hell or Barbadoes, but unfortunately those attrocities are true, I match Dal Cas DNA.

    I do have records of indenture and I have read the book and I know that men and women were made to breed for color that would hold up under the blazing sun. So when you take away a culture from me, that is not something I am claiming for my own but something I descend from, you are stripping me of everything that the descendants of those that were forced from their homes in Cork, Clare, and Donegal taught me. You are stripping me of my love of the sea, my simple living ways on a small horse ranch, owning chickens for eggs, walking in the hills, and dreaming of going back to the land of my forefathers and mothers, a land I have felt pulled to since I was a child.

    My family didn't teach the cheesie trappings that Irish Natives associate with Americans. I was taught hard work, honesty if it kills me, animals are essential to life on earth, trees are essential to life on earth, water is essential to life on earth. In a nutshell, I think that Mr. Milkman, and that is being nice because my grandfather was a milkman though he had a four year degree, I think he is just trying to get a rise out of everyone's knickers. The reason the Pogues would come here would be to remind Irish descended Americans not to FORGET YOUR ROOTS.

    As a History Major
    Irish is a culture
    Not just a nationality
    Celtic pride is not green beer or rivers
    It's blood, sweat and tears for me. E.T.C.
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    • 29 feb 2008, 06:02
    The simple thing is.. You may come from Irish roots, but you had to discover this? You found out you were Catholic? Sorry, you are Catholic or you are not - you were raised in mass, our you were not. How do you discover you are Catholic? If you are not raised Catholic and baptised, how are you Catholic?

    Just like... how are you Irish if you have to discover your roots? Your distant bloodlines -- and your culture, heritage, and identity are two different things.

    You say don't forget your roots - that's admirable, I know a lot of diaspora is in America.. but how can you forget your roots if you never knew them?

    Don't forget your roots... you have to discover your roots first, right?

    Cheers.

  • Haha what a joke. If what you say is true about Shane MacGowan, MilkMan then I guess Michael Collins and James Connoly are fake Irishmen too, since General Collins was educated in England and Connoly at one point was a member of the British army. Read something and educate yourself before you go spouting such hilarious, ignorant and extremely un educated bullshit.


    "James Connolly went to St Patricks School in the Cowgate, as did his two older brothers, Thomas and John. At ten years of age, James left school and got a job with Edinburgh's Evening News newspaper, where he worked as a 'Devil', cleaning inky rollers and fetching beer and food for the adult workers. His brother Thomas also worked with the same newspaper. In 1882, aged 14, he joined the British Army in which he remained for nearly seven years, all of it in Ireland, where he witnessed first hand the terrible treatment of the Irish people at the hands of the British. The mistreatment of the Irish by the British and the landlords led to Connolly forming an intense hatred of the British Army.

    While serving in Ireland, he met his future wife, a Protestant named Lillie Reynolds. They were engaged in 1888 and the following year Connolly discharged himself from the British Army and went back to Scotland."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Connolly#Early_life


    "After leaving school, the 15-year-old Michael followed in the footsteps of many people from Ireland, especially of the Clonakilty area, and moved to London. While in London he lived with his elder sister, Johanna ("Hannie"), and studied at King's College London.

    In February 1906, Collins took the British Civil Service examination in which (to pass it) he praised the "greatest empire";[1] he was employed by the post office from July 1906.

    He joined the London GAA and, through this, the Irish Republican Brotherhood, a secret oath-bound society dedicated to the liberation of Ireland. Sam Maguire, a Church of Ireland republican from Dunmanway, County Cork, introduced the 19 year old Collins into the IRB. In time he would come to play a central role in this organisation."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Collins_%28Irish_leader%29#Early_years


    Need help taking that foot out of your mouth now?

  • Re: What I want to know is this?

    Ravenspoetry said:
    I totally agree with Sixpigeons, money, and hello the FENIANS lest we not forget came from those who did not forget their brethren back home. But that is another story.

    In America, especially early America. Cousin marriage was just as prevalent as Europe. Which I find quite strange because my grandmother always knew she was Irish, my grandfather did not, and his mother didn't want him to marry my grandmother because she was Irish. Guess what, I am a genealogist and they were distant cousins really distant but I found it. I always knew my grandfather was of Irish descent even though I never knew him. I was a history major, and back to the Earls of Ormande is how they were related. One Catholic(Richard Butler), one Protesant(James Butler). I believe my grandmother knew because she hid her Catholicism from her own husband. He passed first, she still hid it from us until she had a Catholic funeral, and we are Catholic???

    I consider myself of Irish descent, of course I know I don't live in Ireland. I have never drank a green beer, seen a dyed green river or thought a leprechaun was a beer chugging mascot.

    However, since many groups that talk on this subject state the fact that Irish is because "they" live in Ireland, I ask the question, why have you just diminished your Culture to living in a place?

    My ancestors were FORCED out, especially the really early ancestors. The little later one's came from Donegal. FOUGHT in the REVOLUTIONARY WAR against Britain. Some of my ancestors were brought here as Indentures if not Slaves, yes there were Slaves in the US in Colonial America that were Irish, maybe you all don't have respect for Sean O'Callaghan born 1918 not born 1954 who wrote the book to Hell or Barbadoes, but unfortunately those attrocities are true, I match Dal Cas DNA.

    I do have records of indenture and I have read the book and I know that men and women were made to breed for color that would hold up under the blazing sun. So when you take away a culture from me, that is not something I am claiming for my own but something I descend from, you are stripping me of everything that the descendants of those that were forced from their homes in Cork, Clare, and Donegal taught me. You are stripping me of my love of the sea, my simple living ways on a small horse ranch, owning chickens for eggs, walking in the hills, and dreaming of going back to the land of my forefathers and mothers, a land I have felt pulled to since I was a child.

    My family didn't teach the cheesie trappings that Irish Natives associate with Americans. I was taught hard work, honesty if it kills me, animals are essential to life on earth, trees are essential to life on earth, water is essential to life on earth. In a nutshell, I think that Mr. Milkman, and that is being nice because my grandfather was a milkman though he had a four year degree, I think he is just trying to get a rise out of everyone's knickers. The reason the Pogues would come here would be to remind Irish descended Americans not to FORGET YOUR ROOTS.




    Absolutely beautiful :)

  • shane is shane ....

    • boovidge sa...
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    • 21 apr 2008, 03:01
    Living in and liking a country has nothing to do with your opinions on the nation state or its actions. Shane is a proud londoner, you only have to listen to a few pogues songs to understand this.

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    • 30 maj 2009, 19:39

    Re: The Pogues : Fake Celtic music.

    TheMilkMan69 said:
    Shane MacGowan, the singer of the Pogues, complains about the British occupation of Ireland, yet he was schooled and lived most of his early life in London, UK.

    And also, to be honest, any Irish band who go and play gigs in America every night are traitors.

    The Pogues have forgotten their roots.


    This is THE biggest bullshit I have ever heard.....no offence...

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