Analyzing and understanding Genesis

 
  • Analyzing and understanding Genesis

    Before I begin, I kindly ask from all of you to empty your mind and try to forget everything you've heard or read about Genesis. It is very hard, but it is also very vital.
    So forget all those videos you've seen with Baptists and Evangelists claiming that the universe is 6.000 years old, forget Ray Comfort and his bananas, forget the old guy who goes on in your mind holding a sign "Creationism is God, Evolution is the devil!".
    Forget people who simply reject the orthodox beliefs and prefer to find shelter in Western and heretic books, books written by people like the aforementioned, people who are afraid of science...

    As we all can imagine, in the older times where science hadn't made much progress concerning creation and the origins of life, almost everyone would take Genesis literary and use it just to cover up his ignorance.But the Bible was not written in order to teach us biology or palaeontology, but to spread the message of being saved.
    For example, when Joshua made the Sun stand above the Earth, this wasn't written in order to teach us astronomy! But the people back then would surely hold that as another proof that the Earth isn't orbiting around the Sun. When heliocentrism was being proposed (of course, with some proof along) most fanatics started to yell and believe that since the Bible disagrees, it's not true. They preferred to say that such theories derive from paganism and are against God's Word.
    In the end, science prevailed and the Christians (!!), who weren't taking every single word in the Bible literary and managed to see things from the correct viewpoint, were finally justified.
    Unfortunately, there are still people today that take the events as described and instantly reject proof by closing their eyes to the truth! People who still live in the Dark Ages... Until the truth will shine, Western movements and heresies will keep on spreading their misinterpretations and delusional beliefs. Maybe they're not actually causing any issues with Salvation to themselves, but they are harming the rest of the world. Imagine how many people would still be Christians if there wasn't that "conflict" between science and Christianity! Even I have to admit that a young Earth creationist makes me feel hasty towards my beliefs. I mean, why do I have to reject evidence?
    The Bible is a strong weapon and when an ignorant wields it, then he becomes able to spread his attribute; more ignorance.

    Today, we hear lots about creationists trying to debunk evolution or creationists filling all scientific gaps with...Noah's flood. Good thing God gave us logic and reason too and we now (along with science and God) can find the truth.

    Many thanks to OODE for helping escape from my prison and realize that science and religion are not contradictory.

    My first post will be on the Noah's flood, there are more to come.

    I've changed my opinion about everything. This post is old and my new views are way cooler. Can't wait to change them again.
  • Noah's Flood - Not worldwide

    As everyone knows, the flood's aim was to exterminate all living creatures, apart from those who were in the ark (Genesis 6:13-17, 7:4 & 7:19-23). But before continuing, we will have to study what events had taken place before the flood.
    After murdering Abel, Cain created his own tribe/race/generation. Anyone can clearly see that he was cast out of Adam's family, he's missing from the accounts (Genesis 5). Still, Adam's generation still intended to keep on going (so to give birth to Jesus Christ).
    But 'when men (Adams, those from Adam's generation) began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God (bene elohim, the sons of the powerful, referring to the powerful tribes around who were not of Adam's) saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose'. Therefore Noah's flood was aiming only at Adam's tribe and not at all people, because his race was mixed with Cain's (instead of trying to stay spiritually pure and -eventually- give birth to the Messiah).
    But what about the rest verses, which clearly state that the flood will be for all the world?
    ...put an end to all people, for the earth...
    ...destroy both them and the earth...
    ...I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature...
    ...were wiped from the earth...

    Ah, that explains why people still claim the flood was all over the world. But we will have to look up the Bible's language, not our dictionary.

    Whenever we see the Bible using the word earth we will have to notice that it's not about the planet Earth, but about land generally (most times, certain regions). Of course, this was caused due to what we call Jewism. It's the state of being ignorant of the rest world and talk about the known parts only, just like Jews do in the Bible.
    Check out when Paul says that the Gospel which was preached 'to every creature under the sky' [note]? Or 'the famine was over all the face of the earth'? Did the Indians suffer from famine? Or 'every nation under heaven'? Did the Apostles go to America?
    Even more, what about out when Cain says that God has driven him out this day from the face of the earth. Isn't the word earth here used as region? What could it possibly mean? That Cain was banished from planet Earth and he was sent to outer space?!?! Did Cain get shuttle and went to Mars? No, he stayed on Earth and kept on living, creating his own tribe etc.!
    Here's the ultimate proof; Genesis 6:13, where every worldwide-flood-supporter is sure to be left speechless. God didn't destroy the Earth (as the passage says)! So it's obviously a reference to a region, a part of a land, not planet Earth! Let us learn to study the Bible from the scribe's perspective and realize that most error derive from Jewism; the (excused) ignorance of the people back then.

    Most will probably wonder "Why did Noah had to construct an ark since the flood was in Mesopotamia? Couldn't he just leave?". In the same way, couldn't the rest people leave? But we are informed that they "all" died.
    The fact that Noah constructed the ark was a proof for the rest of the world; it was an action moved by his faith. Only then Noah's family could live and continue preaching about God. If God had caused a flood all over the Earth, then to whom was Noah going to preach about God?!

    I noticed that an author named George Mulfinger is claiming that the flood did not take part in Mesopotamia only. Besides the fact that most of his arguments have been already countered above, he's claiming that legends etc. about the flood were still alive in the rest of Africa or even America (!). In fact, this was -most probably- caused by songs and art, travellers or even bards; the flood became a legend and it started spreading all over Egypt and India.

    There are many more counterarguments concerning a worldwide flood in the Bible, but I will post them only if any of you has a question which hasn't been answered above.

    I've changed my opinion about everything. This post is old and my new views are way cooler. Can't wait to change them again.
  • Before I begin, I kindly ask from all of you to empty your mind and try to forget everything you've heard or read about Genesis. It is very hard, but it is also very vital.
    How ironic. We've asked this of you lots of times. You never did.
    When heliocentrism was being proposed (of course, with some proof along) most fanatics started to yell and believe that since the Bible disagrees, it's not true. They preferred to say that such theories derive from paganism and are against God's Word.
    In the end, science prevailed and the Christians (!!), who weren't taking every single word in the Bible literary and managed to see things from the correct viewpoint, were finally justified.

    Yes, Christians like (some) Pythagoreans, Aristarchus, ancient Indian astronomers, Martianus Capella, as well as a few Muslim astronomers who weren't sure about Ptolemy's system.
    But that's not even the point. Yes, Copernicus was christian, and so was Tycho Brache (well, not a heliocentrist exactly, but it doesn't matter) and Kepler. And many others. The fact that they understood things better and had the correct viewpoint has nothing to do with them being christians. It was in spite of that. Their christian faith often held them back from making their discoveries earlier.

    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • After murdering Abel, Cain created his own tribe/race/generation.
    Which reminds us, how on earth???

    But let's get to my favourite part of your posts.
    almost everyone would take Genesis literary and use it just to cover up his ignorance
    ...
    Unfortunately, there are still people today that take the events as described and instantly reject proof by closing their eyes to the truth! People who still live in the Dark Ages...


    Tell me. How can you, possibly, say that, and then go on and tell us about the ridiculous story about Noah's Ark, taking it 100% literally, just saying that it wasn't world wide?? (a flood probably did occur - it is a common myth after all - but Noah and his pairs of animals, and the forty days and all that is ... )

    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • VampyreAngel said:
    Tell me. How can you, possibly, say that, and then go on and tell us about the ridiculous story about Noah's Ark, taking it 100% literally, just saying that it wasn't world wide?? (a flood probably did occur - it is a common myth after all - but Noah and his pairs of animals, and the forty days and all that is ... )

    'Just saying that it wasn't worldwide'? Just? This is the most liberal (and at the same time orthodox and conservative) view. At least it's better than believing what the opposers claim, haha.
    There were not two animals of every kind (see the rest of the Bible for clean and unclean animals). Stiil, there seems to be a mistranslation (?) and it isn't clear whether it says seven animals or seven pairs (therefore 14 animals).
    Also, I'm talking about people who instantly reject evidence. I'm not going to reject any scientific proof without studying it first.

    I've changed my opinion about everything. This post is old and my new views are way cooler. Can't wait to change them again.
  • VampyreAngel said:
    After murdering Abel, Cain created his own tribe/race/generation.
    Which reminds us, how on earth???

    Haha, it's a common mistake. Adam isn't the biological ancestor of all humans; it's just for the Israelites.
    1:26 = Human (male and female He created us)
    2:7 = Adam (and then folloed by Eve)
    We came before the Jews, yay!

    I've changed my opinion about everything. This post is old and my new views are way cooler. Can't wait to change them again.
  • Your last link in no way implies anything about Adam being the ancestor of just Israelites. It just says the name is jewish. And even if someone agreed with you, you're still taking the part about making man from dirt and all literally, mr.
    There were not two animals of every kind (see the rest of the Bible for clean and unclean animals). Stiil, there seems to be a mistranslation (?) and it isn't clear whether it says seven animals or seven pairs (therefore 14 animals).
    Aha. So your non-ignorant, plausible explanation is that there were even more animals on the boat. Brilliant.

    Just? This is the most liberal (and at the same time orthodox and conservative) view.
    What can I say? Your most liberal view still sounds like a troglodyte-era achievement for me.

    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • VampyreAngel said:
    Your last link in no way implies anything about Adam being the ancestor of just Israelites. It just says the name is jewish. And even if someone agreed with you, you're still taking the part about making man from dirt and all literally, mr.

    Just follow Adam's family tree in the accounts. Besides Cain's tribe (who was cast out), you'll see that the rest is all about the Jews.

    Aha. So your non-ignorant, plausible explanation is that there were even more animals on the boat. Brilliant.
    Yes, but I never said that all kinds of animals (say from amoebas to dinosaurs?) were in the ark. Just the few kinds of animals from around, no wallabies or white bears in the ark.

    I've changed my opinion about everything. This post is old and my new views are way cooler. Can't wait to change them again.
  • Yes, but I never said that all kinds of animals (say from amoebas to dinosaurs?) were in the ark. Just the few kinds of animals from around, no wallabies or white bears in the ark.
    Which doesn't support the scientific theories at all...

  • Animals like sheep and camels cannot board ships?

    I've changed my opinion about everything. This post is old and my new views are way cooler. Can't wait to change them again.
  • Yeah man, that's the problem with this story.

    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_flood#Hypotheses_of_origin_of_flood_myths

    Also, just to keep you modest and your most liberal theory that those heretic westerners never thought of off its high pedestal,
    By the eighth edition (1853-1860) the encyclopedia (Brittanica) says of the Noah story, "The insuperable difficulties connected with the belief that all other existing species of animals were provided for in the ark are obviated by adopting the suggestion of Bishop Stillingfleet, approved by Matthew Poole...and others, that the Deluge did not extend beyond the region of the earth then inhabited..."

    In 1862 William Thompson, later Lord Kelvin, calculated the age of the earth at between 24 and 400 million years. His calculations were based on almost a century of steady advances in the scientific study of geology, and for the remainder of the 19th century, discussion was not about whether Kelvin was right or wrong, but about just how many millions were involved.[27] The field of Geology had a profound impact on attitudes towards the Biblical Flood and Ark story: without the support of the Biblical chronology, which placed the Creation and the Flood in a history which stretched back no more than a few thousand years, the historicity of the Ark itself was undermined. The influential 1889 volume of theological essays Lux Mundi, which is usually held to mark a stage in the acceptance of a more critical approach to scripture, took the stance that the gospels could be relied on as completely historical, but the earlier chapters of Genesis should not be taken literally.[28] With the advent of modern genetics, it was confirmed that no population bottleneck occurred across all species at one time in the recent past and revealing human populations had diverged as much as 100,000 years ago.

    If you want a real, plausible, and much more interesting bottleneck theory, try the possible wiping out of humanity by Lake Toba. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_catastrophe_theory

    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
    • wimme sa...
    • Användare
    • 25 maj 2009, 21:40
    I sense a violation of the law of gravity in the post about Noah's flood.

  • Tell us more!

    I've changed my opinion about everything. This post is old and my new views are way cooler. Can't wait to change them again.
    • ISoS sa...
    • Användare
    • 26 maj 2009, 15:41
    the_gray_fox said:
    Just follow Adam's family tree in the accounts. Besides Cain's tribe (who was cast out), you'll see that the rest is all about the Jews.


    It sounds like you're implying that Cain isn't related to Adam...??

    My other half: Anath
    Read Black/Death Metal reviews here!: Subjected to Metal
  • They cast him out of the family tree. Biologically, he was Adam's son. But spiritually, he was not of their family.

    I've changed my opinion about everything. This post is old and my new views are way cooler. Can't wait to change them again.
    • ISoS sa...
    • Användare
    • 26 maj 2009, 16:17
    the_gray_fox said:
    They cast him out of the family tree. Biologically, he was Adam's son. But spiritually, he was not of their family.


    So you're assessment that all humans didn't come from Adam is wrong... at least that sounds like what you're saying.

    My other half: Anath
    Read Black/Death Metal reviews here!: Subjected to Metal
  • Yes, exactly! We didn't come from Adam.
    The rest of the mankind was created before Adam, but he was in the image and the likeness of God too. Adam & Eve were just the ones who were to bring up a generation worthy to give birth to the Messiah.

    But we (now, as Christians) have the ability to join Adam's family, because such a family is a family of spirit, not blood and flesh.

    I've changed my opinion about everything. This post is old and my new views are way cooler. Can't wait to change them again.
  • I think no christian will agree with that.
    So the rest of christianity was created before Adam, huh? I must assume they were not in Eden, so they were never in this blissful state and stuff. Why should there be an original sin for them?
    You are making up your own religion as you go.

    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
    • ISoS sa...
    • Användare
    • 26 maj 2009, 17:04
    VampyreAngel said:
    I think no christian will agree with that.
    So the rest of christianity was created before Adam, huh? I must assume they were not in Eden, so they were never in this blissful state and stuff. Why should there be an original sin for them?
    You are making up your own religion as you go.


    Yeah, I don't think anyone else will agree with his assessment of this. It's kind of like choose your own adventure... but with theology.

    I also like how one of the most important parts of the bible is when God breathes into Adam, thus giving him spirit. Yet apparently the rest of the humans can get spirits if they just join Adam. It's like God has his own spirit manufacturing facility and he's handing them out like campaign buttons that say 'vote for Jesus" haha

    My other half: Anath
    Read Black/Death Metal reviews here!: Subjected to Metal
  • I VOTE FOR JESUS IF I GET COOKIE

    • ISoS sa...
    • Användare
    • 26 maj 2009, 18:53
    LeaTelamon said:
    I VOTE FOR JESUS IF I GET COOKIE


    Someone had a post with a banner that said you get a free PSP if you vote for Jesus!

    My other half: Anath
    Read Black/Death Metal reviews here!: Subjected to Metal
  • Haha yes, I saw that one. But I don't want a PSP :(

  • VampyreAngel said:
    So the rest of christianity was created before Adam, huh? I must assume they were not in Eden, so they were never in this blissful state and stuff. Why should there be an original sin for them?

    I don't think we were Christians exactly. We were just scattered all over the world, while God was preparing Adam and the coming of the Messiah.
    I have an answer for the other one too, but you'll have to wait until I translate it. :(

    I've changed my opinion about everything. This post is old and my new views are way cooler. Can't wait to change them again.
  • ISoS said:
    I also like how one of the most important parts of the bible is when God breathes into Adam, thus giving him spirit. Yet apparently the rest of the humans can get spirits if they just join Adam.

    God's breath was probably the Holy Spirit, which was breathed into Adam in order to be the ascendant of the Messiah. I can give you many Bible passages where we are supposed to be Adam's (or Abraham's) children.

    It's like God has his own spirit manufacturing facility and he's handing them out like campaign buttons that say 'vote for Jesus" haha
    MakeNine has something close to that it in his sig. Here's the image! :D
    By the way, it's all lies. I'm a Christian and I still don't have a PSP. :(

    I've changed my opinion about everything. This post is old and my new views are way cooler. Can't wait to change them again.
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