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Warner to quit free music streaming

 
    • Tecfan sa...
    • Event Moderator
    • 10 feb 2010, 14:06

    Warner to quit free music streaming

    If you're into /, you might enjoy my (free) tracks: Tecfan
  • Just posted a journal about this - (link here) - which I'll add to this thread...

    Writing this on the back of the BBC article I just read; Warner to quit free music streaming - another major label pulling out of web.2 because it's "clearly not positive for the industry"...

    How does a label measure this? I would guess that the best measurement would be that of cold hard cash. You'll have to factor in other non-cash elements and work out potential cash value from them. And there's the rub.

    Easy things to measure are;

    • how many songs from the Warner catalogue have been played on last.fm (or spotify or etc etc etc)?
    • how much money back from these plays has been paid?
    • How many indivual users have listened to these tracks?


    Easy to measure because last.fm will send all this info to Warners.

    What I'm not so sure is easy to measure is what listens are converted into sales. By this I mean a user listens to tracks by an artist and then buys those tracks, an album by that artist, goes to a gig, etc.
    Last.fm provides links to ebay/amazon/other from artist & album & track pages and is pushing this further by their new homepage (subscribers only at the mo) - see http://www.last.fm/forum/21717/_/598190 for more on that - but can an actual sale online be clearly linked to following links from last.fm and listening to the tracks on last.fm? And what about non-online sales.

    A few years back last.fm became my mainline into hearing dubstep tracks and I never looked back. I have spent an unseemly amount on vinyl since this but how does any label know why I bought all that stuff? Maybe I would have gone elsewhere to first hear the music - but I didn't.
    I've bought LPs after hearing about them via last.fm and sometimes I've emailed the record label (very indie small labels here!) to say I bought this after hearing something on last.fm and seeing the link to buy it on the artist pages. (did this for LP from Charlottefield from Unsound label.

    I think firstly that Warners might be missing a trick here, but secondly that major labels are not all that web.2 friendly due to their size and distance from the end users (that'd be you and me).

    Can the majors survive without these technologies? Probably.
    Can last.fm survive without buy in from the majors? No Idea. What % of tracks come from them?

    The future may depend upon finding a way to measure these unknowns. But how you join up all your music purchases with your online presence and web.2 behavior is a bit beyond my ken! I'm guessing some sort of invasion of personal liberty/data?

  • Yay! More greed from major labels! Good job, Warner! :|

    • [Raderad användare] sa...
    • Användare
    • 10 feb 2010, 19:21
    I'll wait to see what happens with this one, it could just be all talk. Also, it's a bit vague at the moment; if they're quitting "free music streaming", does that mean that Spotify's paid subscribers will still have access to the Warner catalogue? Because if so, that's fine by me - hell, it'd probably drive a whole lot of new subscribers for Spotify.

    If, however, they're exiting the online streaming market altogether, that's a huuuuge mistake. Someone in a boardroom clearly thinks "if people can't listen for free, they'll buy the CD instead". No, they'll trend towards downloading it illegally instead - at which point, even if they like it, it's very hard to motivate them towards paying for a CD of the album they've already downloaded.

    It's definitely going to get ugly though.

    • dankine sa...
    • Användare
    • 10 feb 2010, 19:23
    Companies like Spotify, We7 and Last.fm give free, legal and instant access to millions of songs, funded by adverts. Warner, one of the four major labels, whose artists include REM and Michael Buble, said such services were "clearly not positive for the industry".
    doesn't look too good, for those of you that listen to warner bands.

    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
    "I don't want to believe, I want to know"

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    • Tecfan sa...
    • Event Moderator
    • 10 feb 2010, 21:16
    im gonna throw in this:

    Warner sucks.

    If you're into /, you might enjoy my (free) tracks: Tecfan
  • StudleyUK said:
    If, however, they're exiting the online streaming market altogether, that's a huuuuge mistake. Someone in a boardroom clearly thinks "if people can't listen for free, they'll buy the CD instead". No, they'll trend towards downloading it illegally instead - at which point, even if they like it, it's very hard to motivate them towards paying for a CD of the album they've already downloaded.

    It's definitely going to get ugly though.


    exactly what I'm thinking :P

  • No, major labels suck. You expect change from them and this is what is seen..not budging because they want every penny for themselves.

  • Hmm I wouldn't be surprised if being a Subscriber on either or both Last.fm and Spotify will mean this doesn't effect you. It just won't be available for free to anyone.

    • Oldbean sa...
    • Användare
    • 11 feb 2010, 01:46
    StudleyUK said:
    Someone in a boardroom clearly thinks "if people can't listen for free, they'll buy the CD instead". No, they'll trend towards downloading it illegally instead


    Or they'll just never hear it in the first damn place.

    Warner's business model might as well be built around buggy whips and butter churns.

  • Are Warnners just to big to change?
    If you own 20% of all the buggy whips and butter churns in the world then how easy is it to change?! Possibly does make more business sense, in the short term, to hold onto what you got, keep using it, and try and stop others using different things. Long term you're knackered but... hey, these are difficult times for any number of big businesses and the majors are not alone in playing it far too safe.

    The good news from all this is that while the majors faff around there are reports of very small start up labels and new indie music tiny businesses doing ok.

  • Warners have shot themselves in the foot here. The streaming offers a chance to preview before you buy. People will start illegally downloading the artists to preview it and because they already have it, they won't go out and buy it.

    And smaller artists won't be discovered as much through streaming sites which hurts both Warners and the artist

  • HeroOfYesterday said:
    Warners have shot themselves in the foot here. The streaming offers a chance to preview before you buy. People will start illegally downloading the artists to preview it and because they already have it, they won't go out and buy it.

    And smaller artists won't be discovered as much through streaming sites which hurts both Warners and the artist


    You are absolutely right. I wonder what they want to achieve with that.Let's see what happens.

  • TalkingToPylons said:
    Hmm I wouldn't be surprised if being a Subscriber on either or both Last.fm and Spotify will mean this doesn't effect you. It just won't be available for free to anyone.


    Hmmm...hadn't considered this... If I read your post correctly, you are suggesting that Warner will ask last.fm to exclude its catalog for free members, but that the entire Warner catalog might still be available to last.fm subscribers, right?

  • Innocent12345 said:
    You are absolutely right. I wonder what they want to achieve with that.Let's see what happens.


    Stop spamming.

    • [Raderad användare] sa...
    • Användare
    • 12 feb 2010, 02:02
    • Oldbean sa...
    • Användare
    • 12 feb 2010, 03:35
    thisisall1word said:
    Are Warnners just to big to change?
    If you own 20% of all the buggy whips and butter churns in the world then how easy is it to change?!


    Oh, not very easy at all. No one wants to kill their cash cow, even when that cow's days are numbered either way. For example, look at Kodak, they're getting put out of business by digital photography-- a technology they played a major part in pioneering! Or look at American car companies. They've known for 30+ years that the Japanese were drinking their milkshake with small, efficient cars. But to this day, when you see any of them at a car show, the centerpiece is always the new Charger/Mustang/Camaro/whatever, not the Volt. What makes a company great often times becomes it's downfall.

    thisisall1word said:
    The good news from all this is that while the majors faff around there are reports of very small start up labels and new indie music tiny businesses doing ok.


    Labels are just middlemen anyway. Artists support fans, fans support artists, but labels just skim off the top. Frankly, I'm not sure what if any purpose they serve in this day in age.

  • Oldbean said:
    Frankly, I'm not sure what if any purpose they serve in this day in age


    Hmmm, well, giving bands who do not want to get involved with PR (<<shudder>>, and who does) and distribution, and providing money up front for stuff and already knowing how to book gigs in the right places, distribution, etc etc etc.

    Some bands and artists have these powers (or don't need them) but other bands and artists need other people behind them with all this knowledge and experience I guess. Charlotte Hatherley (ex of Ash) is an example of someone who tried the whole DIY experience and got stung by it. Not all musicians like dealing with that side of things!

    Redigerad av thisisall1word den 13 feb 2010, 17:52
    • tburny sa...
    • Forum Moderator
    • 13 feb 2010, 10:06
    Microcycle said:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Warner_Music_Group_artists

    Thanks for that link! There's about 15 Artists I really love, like Genesis and another 10 I wouln't like to miss on last.fm either. Luckily Meat Loaf isn't on the list.

    I think they wouln't hit only themselves but a whole bunch of artists too.

    Maybe I should write a nice app which displays all tracks in your library that are from Warner Music...and hear the poeple swearing :P

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  • Come on people, Web POWER!
    Email Warner's & tell them you won't buy any of their products (music, film ,games,whatever) if they act on this. Also tell them which albums you've bought after hearing them on LastFM, Spitify whatever....
    Go to it kids....

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    • Mamaatti sa...
    • Användare
    • 15 feb 2010, 04:41
    dankine said:
    doesn't look too good, for those of you that listen to warner bands.


    Oh no. Now I need to illegally download REM from the internet :P

    lost in the kingdom of Narnia,
    brought back by nostalgic feelings
    • Tecfan sa...
    • Event Moderator
    • 15 feb 2010, 08:08
    Mamaatti said:
    dankine said:
    doesn't look too good, for those of you that listen to warner bands.


    Oh no. Now I need to illegally download REM from the internet :P


    lol

    If you're into /, you might enjoy my (free) tracks: Tecfan
  • Tecfan said:
    Mamaatti said:
    dankine said:
    doesn't look too good, for those of you that listen to warner bands.


    Oh no. Now I need to illegally download REM from the internet :P


    lol
    cynical remarks like this might show that Warners decision (?) isn't short sighted at all. Maybe they just want to pull quality content from the bargain bin that web2.0 site still look like in so many places. then again, i have no idea what i am talking about... ^^

    • jdoddy sa...
    • Användare
    • 18 feb 2010, 17:15
    Spotify tweeted about this when the news broke, WM will not be pulling any content from Spotify - at least this is what they are leading us to believe.

    you can see the tweet here: http://twitter.com/Spotify/status/8919825963

    JDoddy.
  • Now lastfm has ended free streaming. THANKS WARNER!!! I'll remember to care about YOU!

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