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10th anniversary of Kurt Cobain's death

 
  • HAHAHAHAHA.

    Is this the right room for an argument?
  • yeah this really should be a seperate thread, since it has nothing to do with kurt cobain anymore. oh well, Family Guy owns, so I have to give Kudos to whoever started talking about it. Mr. Griffen goes to Washington is my favorite episode.

    If pigs could fly, it would be a lot harder to get pork products...
  • Kurt Cobain was poo.

  • Re:

    Kurt Cobain was poo.


    A Senryu About Zarathustra's Cobain
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    A turd fights feces
    And liquid anal discharge
    Paint the loud wall brown

    • joffeman sa...
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    • 27 apr 2004, 10:52
    both of you are simply brilliant.

    cobain was a coward who left his child alone with a shitty mum. no matter what anybody says about courtney, 2 shitty parents is twice as good as one shitty parent. he's doomed the poor thing to a life of shit, even though she'll be rich, and that's why i have no respect for him as a person. everyone has problems, he didn't have the balls to deal with his. fuck 'im.

  • both of you are simply brilliant.

    I know.

    But poor little thing?

    Didn't Courtney once describe cocaine to her kid as "really evil coffee"?

    I bet the child will have an absolute terrific time growing up.

    And I'm not that adverse to suicide, as method of self-realization or metaphorical egomaniacal foot-stamping goes...

    • joffeman sa...
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    • 27 apr 2004, 21:15
    don't get me wrong: i believe suicide is a personal choice, and i encourage people to make that choice for themselves- but my opinion is in most instances suicide is cowardly, selfish, and in some cases just plain silly. i'm speaking from experience, here- i'm a nutcase who has spent time in nuthouses, and my first and only suicide attempt was when i was 11 years old. i see that shit as childish, and i'm ashamed even at that age i didn't know better.

  • There is no question that Cobain's suicide was an incredibly selfish act. There is no question the Francis Bean (or whatever her name is) is much the worse for it. But Cobain's decision to kill himself can not so easily be written off as "he just couldn't deal with his problems."

    The fact that Cobain was bipolar and addicted to heroine makes his situation just a tad different from ours. So, claiming that "everyone has problems" isn't wholly relevant. Bipolar people, before the medicinal affects of Lithium were discovered, killed people for centuries. The short of it is that Cobain had a severe chemical imbalance in his brain that, while it contributed to his genius, also cursed him with a destinct propensity for suicidal feelings.

    That said, his sickness can't recieve all of the blame. He shouldn't have killed himself, period. But I find it a bit hard to write him off so harshly for it. I see his suicide as infinitely more tragic than cowardly and selfish.

    strawberry fields forever
  • edit:

    "Bipolar people" should read "bipolarity"

    strawberry fields forever
  • Of course suicide is selfish. But so is breathing. Or having the balls to be happy. Or spending whatever dollars on CDs when you could rather buy a dozen 12-year-old prositutes in Kazakhstan and give their economy a great boost. It's all about acceptable levels. Saying "you shouldn't be so selfish" to a depressed person (i.e. selfish person) or sitting around being superior ("Oh, felo-de-se is just so childish." "Indeed." *puff*) won't change him an iota, with the possible exception of maybe adjusting that wonderful psychological selfishness "guilt" up a few notches.

    Personally, I think the same logical things as you (joffeman), of course, only my subjective feelings differ: I love suicides all the same, no matter how much they screw up the lives of the mundane non-suicides, and I won't pretend to be all lofty about it. I support it as a mature and reasonable alternative to living.

    Lithium is so far from perfect it hurts. Literally. I'm doing some kind of epilepsy medicine for my chemical affliction of utter self-ish-ness (not true bipolar - my manic/depressed cycle enjoys a much shorter period) to stabilize neuron firing. Heh, they have the much undesired mark of negating the effect of amphetamines.

    • joffeman sa...
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    • 28 apr 2004, 11:08
    i'm bipolar as well (diagnosed and drugged, essentially a lab rat by age 7, but back then i was a violent little gobshite), and an amphetamine addict. i've been on anti-seizure meds (and just about everything else they threw my way) before, and they're indeed shit.

    as for offing oneself, i see it as a personal choice that i will write off as immature and unreasonable unless done for some sort of important cause [ie self-immolation on the steps of the capital, suicide bombing, politicians pulling 'a dwyer' for the greater good]. then it's got more of a meaning but it's still just an easy out without really helping anyone else when done in a modern industrialized country- especially for the wealthy. fucking rich cunts.

    i don't give this advice to the depressed, of course- i do advise them that it is their choice but i also remind them of the people they would be hurting, and encourage them to seek help or find a deeper meaning in their life. it took the death of a very close friend for me to change my mind about the entire thing- before the age of 16 or so i frequently seriously contemplated doing myself in, but i only tried once [that i remember]. i'm a cynical twat, and admittedly a bit jaded, but i do believe every life is worth something. purposefully killing oneself is perfectly acceptable to me, just don't expect me to respect someone who makes that choice when there are other choices that are less selfish or they aren't in a position of irreversible suffering.

    i don't think for a minute kurt's dumb ass was really doomed to suffer. i think he was an undeservingly wealthy smack addict who pussied out of the most important responsibility he could have- fatherhood. to risk repeating myself about cobain, quite frankly i wish i believed in hell so i could imagine ol' kurt frying like the piggie he was. lots of people have tough childhoods and chemical imbalances, but not everyone gets the chance to become an influential pop-culture figure, and a father to boot. in my eyes, he's a dismal failure in every important way, and though i try to go out of my way not to critique music, referencing freud and using the same fucking riff all over a record doesn't make you anything special. i liked nirvana when i was a kid but when i realized he was such a selfish brat it became hard to listen to his music. he could have done something important, changed the world for the better, but he's little more than a speck of shit to me. at least even fucking bono makes half-hearted efforts to help people, even if it's just a PR move.

    kurt... i'd have an ounce more respect for him if it were an accidental overdose, or even an overdose as the result of a subconscious urge to croak. no- it was a purposefully fatal gunshot wound, thought out all too well, and that's the worst kind of selfishness. his leaving a futile note made it worse. fuck him.

  • This is such a fun thread.

    Through the eyes of the majority of suiciders suicide isn't selfish at all. The typical guy or gal might put on The Face of Reason and argue that yes, of course it is, but deep down he or she doesn't feel that way: (s)he thinks that by removing himself from the face of Tellus that (s)he is, in fact, doing everyone a favor. "Say, I'm no good to anyone, am I? Everyone must be so tired of me. And I really, really hate myself like this, so even I am tired of me! I think I'll just lower my hand in this here propane and bam! - everybody wins! What a delightful solution. My loved ones will definitely be so happy and come to see what a wholly sound and reasonable human being I was."

    Unless you're not on the wave of Apathy, but rather Bathos, and you just want to scream for help, help, help - i.e. you fantasize about being rescued. Now, Kurt, he did the gun. You don't fantasize about being rescured when you do the gun. So kudos to Kurt.

    As for the fact that he had money and fame and heroin and probably a lot of teenage cunt hanging around - it doesn't matter. If he had attempted some half-assed method that was bound to fail, and indeed did... - that would have been more in the domain of pathetic. Then I'd be right there with you in calling him a moran (sic) from sunup to sundown.

    • aradnuk sa...
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    • 28 apr 2004, 22:10
    If you have to commit suicide then at least make sure it's going to work.. If you leave any chance of escape open then you don't, somewhere deep down, want to do it. As tristesse said, you fantasize about being rescued. Can a failed suicide be seen as even more pathetic than a 'successful' one? At least Kurt managed to do it right.

    • joffeman sa...
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    • 29 apr 2004, 02:10

    sure, he succeeded

    ...so did elliot smith. thank god.

    but on that bitter note, i have to say i agree he did do it right- but that doesn't make him any less of a bitch. the means & motive are irrelevant to me, the intention was there and that makes him a big cunt. i'd rather be a pathetic cry for help than be an eternal asshole to my child.

  • On the Lithium note, I too spent several years on Lithium, as I had been diagnosed as bipolar at age 9. And, I too have taken the usual cocktail of various medications.

    I personally think Lithium to be fucking awful, as it did nothing for me but be a pain in my ass. Though, i am no longer presumed bipolar, and I assume[d] that to be the reasoning for the drugs ineffectiveness.

    Maybe Lithium is shit altogether, i really have no basis...

    On Cobain, i think where you (joffeman) and i differ is in our understanding of his various obligations. The only true obligation he failed to follow through on, in my opinion, is his obligation to his daughter. And, that's a big fucking failure! But in terms of his obligations to society, i see none. I see missed opportunities; but i don't feel as though he failed me, or you.

    I recently had a relative attempt suicide. Someone with a husband and kids. She needs help, and she messed up. I see great fault in her act, however her situation (like all who attempt suicide) is implicitly different from us who don't try to kill ourselves; simply because we don't. It isn't failure in the conventional sense; its an ultimate failure, an infinte failure, which makes it different, and -- like i said before -- more tragic and inexplicable than blame-able.

    To respond to tristesse:

    I agree with what you said about supporting suicide, to a degree. I see different sorts of suicide. Suicide is sometimes spawned from anger, or depression, or insanity. I don't support these. However, some suicide can be boiled down to a very profound and philosophical choice (like Hamlet's suicidal urges, if you wish). This question sort i see to be the legitimate option of every person.

    strawberry fields forever
  • final sentence doesn't need "question"...

    strawberry fields forever
    • joffeman sa...
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    • 29 apr 2004, 04:18
    other than to his daughter and wife, i didn't feel he really had 'obligations' as such, but i do feel that because of the way he chose to live he was a bit of a shit. it's neither here nor there, just my opinion on a guy who shat away a chance to make a bit of change for the better in a world where change would do us all some good.

    i hate to say this, but i don't feel that suicide is 'inexplicable' in the least- but it is very, very tragic. i think blame can be placed on a number of things (and in our society is quite readily), but ultimately there is no one to blame but the person who makes that final choice.

    ...and who is to say what sanity truly is? if we're going to get all philosophical about this subject, i'll throw a devil's advocate hat into the ring: perhaps in fits of desperation we are at our most sane.

    i am done contributing to this conversation, though, as i prefer my messageboards light and fluffy, with a hint of minty freshness.

  • Re:

    I too spent several years on Lithium, ...

    Heh, I had no idea there were so many crazies among us. Maybe there's something about Audioscrobbler that attracts the slightly demented brain.

  • At least he gives the goth kids someone to look up to ^^

  • Re: Re:

    Quoth tristesse:

    Heh, I had no idea there were so many crazies among us. Maybe there's something about Audioscrobbler that attracts the slightly demented brain.



    i think it's something about the internet in general... or perhaps something about the world today...

    Kurt Cobain. sigh. i just hope (but doubt) he's happy, wherever he is now. people just need to leave him the hell alone already.

    i'm so indie that my shirt don't fit.
    • aradnuk sa...
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    • 7 sep 2004, 08:58
    'wherever he is now'? he's dead. gone. nowhere. either that or he's in hell and would like some company.

    • joffeman sa...
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    • 7 sep 2004, 09:44

    Re:

    Quoth aradnuk:
    'wherever he is now'? he's dead. gone. nowhere. either that or he's in hell and would like some company.

    agreed! suicide is a punk-bitch way to go out, fuh real. i said i was done contributing to this post but i couldn't resist adding some lyrics by the residents:

    run, run, run, run
    run, run, run, run
    run, run, fast as you can
    run, run, fast as you can
    run, run, fast as you can
    you can't catch me, i'm the gingerbread man

    once upon a time i played electric guitar
    and they said i was a rock and roll star
    now nobody calls me on the telephone
    so i sit and watch my tv all alone
    maybe if i put a bullet in my brain
    they'd remember me like kurt cobain
    and the parasites on mtv
    would wipe their eyes and act like they knew me
    but i wouldn't be a hero i'd be dead
    just a note beside a corpse that read
    if you like to pretend that you'll never get old
    you got what it takes to rock and roll

    jagger - he was a poet
    none of this three chords and a hairdresser crap
    i just need a couple of players
    with a couple of really good players
    i could have a band again go back on the road
    c'mere boy
    play real music none of this computer crap
    real music
    we could go big
    whatever happened to music
    now it's all about marketing and media coverage
    goddamn mtv
    everything was okay before mtv
    and gun control - like gun control's gonna stop anything
    a trooper mark III'll stop just about anything
    c'mere boy
    schnauzer, where's uzi?
    is he outside?
    nothing's right anymore not even tv
    davy crockett said it all
    if you're sure you're right then go ahead on
    now nothing's right
    goddamn mtv

  • Re:

    Quoth aradnuk:
    'wherever he is now'? he's dead. gone. nowhere. either that or he's in hell and would like some company.


    wow, thank you! it all makes sense to me! i had NO IDEA! i'm such an ass for thinking that anything positive could have happened to some one after they killed themselves!

    i'm so indie that my shirt don't fit.
    • aradnuk sa...
    • Användare
    • 9 sep 2004, 07:36

    Re: Re:

    Kurt Cobain. sigh. i just hope (but doubt) he's happy, wherever he is now. people just need to leave him the hell alone already.
    Quoth sobriquette:
    wow, thank you! it all makes sense to me! i had NO IDEA! i'm such an ass for thinking that anything positive could have happened to some one after they killed themselves!

    So why all the sentimentality? Split personality? Can't decide what you want to believe?

  • I think that was sarcasm.

    -Scott

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