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Artist description wiki in other languages

 
  • Artist description wiki in other languages

    I've got 2 questions indeed.

    - Is it fair, right now, to translate a given artist's description to -lets say- Spanish, placing it below the English one? It might be of interest to many foreign last.fm users to find the info in their language, as not everybody can read advanced English properly.

    - I understand that, with the current wiki system, once you have 4 or 5 "foreign versions" in the same artist's page you end up with a massive amount of text, most of it irrelevant to a given user as he will only read the one that is written in his own language. Are you planning to improve this issue at some point?

    You might add a setting in which you specify a default language for wiki descriptions. If the system doesn't find the one you prefer, it shows the English version.

  • Well the main last.fm doesnt have multiple alnguage support anyway does it??

    If im right this would be a good start to make last.fm more appealing to international foriegn speaking people.


    cheers,
    damien.

    deak.es
    • Russ sa...
    • Alumni
    • 10 feb 2006, 19:44
    English only currently, please.

    • zzzum sa...
    • Användare
    • 13 feb 2006, 16:07
    i agree about a default language for the wiki, english in case.

    but, in the meantime, you should accept a second language - artist national language - below the english text, as a second description.

    what do you think about it?

    thanks.

    keep listening.
  • Re:

    Quoth zzzum:
    i agree about a default language for the wiki, english in case.

    but, in the meantime, you should accept a second language - artist national language - below the english text, as a second description.

    what do you think about it?

    thanks.


    thats exact what i think!

    • Russ sa...
    • Alumni
    • 21 feb 2006, 16:34
    That's why I said English only *currently*. We will likely be introducing other languages soon, but until we have an effective way of seperating them it should only be English.

  • but...

    But...

    If the artist only sing in spanish or italian, why must be the description in english? it's dumb.

    And thanks for erasing my contributions in spanish.

    • xflash sa...
    • Användare
    • 25 feb 2006, 02:20
    When that internationalization takes place the Wiki it will be only for language english or each language it will have a Wiki?

  • Re: but...

    Imagine this: You're reading a Spanish horror novel. The evil demon has been running rampant, slicing and dicing everyone in its way. Some people come up with a plan to catch him. Okay, here's the plan: Ooops, you can't read it, because you turn the page and the entire page is in Arabic!

    Same thing here. The current wiki is an English Only wiki. Having random non-English pages in it is just wrong.

    Once internationalization is implemented, other languages can be used in their respective wiki pages as the languages are added.

    Until then, you can either translate to English or leave it blank. Patience is a virtue, or something like that.


    Quoth odiomivida:
    And thanks for erasing my contributions in spanish.


    Nothing in a wiki gets "erased". Every change to a wiki is recorded.

    1- Go to the wiki page in question.
    2- Click the "View older versions" in the right-side grey area.
    3- Click the version number that your username is next to.

    There's your text. You can copy it from there into the Spanish (or whatever) wiki page once that language is implemented.

    ...
    • xflash sa...
    • Användare
    • 25 feb 2006, 15:24

    Re: Re: but...

    Quoth HairMetalAddict:
    You can copy it from there into the Spanish (or whatever) wiki page once that language is implemented.


    Cool!
    :)

  • I defend my own language

    Well I speak 2 languages, and I'm learning a third one. This is surely an advantage, because I cann be understood by a lot of people (due to the fact that I speak the second and the third language in the world by the number of speakers).

    Well I think that it'd be ok if when we post something in a different language than English, the bot'd ask us to write it down in english too, but I can't stand that a bot pretends me to stop writing in my mother language.

    Asi que termino este post en el idioma al que le debo el saber comunicarme y que me ha dado tanto a lo largo de estos 17 años.

  • There are no bots handling anything on the wiki.

    The PM you received explained why it's *temporarily* only in English.

    The wiki edit page itself states to write in English.

    Once the site gets Internationalized, you will be able to write it in your language.

    Just not yet.

    3 posts above this one is the detailed explanation.

    ...
    • SiR_VeeN sa...
    • Användare
    • 10 mar 2006, 18:08

    Dutch Music

    but...

    But...

    If the artist only sing in spanish or italian, why must be the description in english? it's dumb.

    And thanks for erasing my contributions in spanish.


    that's right!


    I posted a description of a dutch rapper, Jawat!.. I got a message that the language i used (Dutch) is not allowed. But I think only the dutch people are interrested in Dutch rappers.

    Jawat!

    • SiR_VeeN sa...
    • Användare
    • 10 mar 2006, 18:09

    waaa!!

    Last.fm just deleted my description!!! TOO BAD!!

  • Re: Re: but...

    As I said a few posts up (please read the whole thread first):

    Quoth HairMetalAddict:
    Imagine this: You're reading a Spanish horror novel. The evil demon has been running rampant, slicing and dicing everyone in its way. Some people come up with a plan to catch him. Okay, here's the plan: Ooops, you can't read it, because you turn the page and the entire page is in Arabic!

    Same thing here. The current wiki is an English Only wiki. Having random non-English pages in it is just wrong.

    Once internationalization is implemented, other languages can be used in their respective wiki pages as the languages are added.

    Until then, you can either translate to English or leave it blank. Patience is a virtue, or something like that.




    It doesn't matter who the band is or what language they sing in.

    This is an English website. The language of the website overrides the language of the artist. You won't find random non-English pages on the (English) Wikipedia site, on AllMusic, on any other English-only site. This is no different.

    For now. Until Internationalization is started.

    ...
  • Re: Dutch Music

    Quoth SiR_VeeN:

    that's right!


    I posted a description of a dutch rapper, Jawat!.. I got a message that the language i used (Dutch) is not allowed. But I think only the dutch people are interrested in Dutch rappers.

    Jawat!

    HairMetalAddict said it best above.

    As for thinking that only people that speak the same language will listen to the music is very wrong. I've got a ton of foriegn music in my profile. Mainly Japanese, but alot of finnish, indian, and german. The reccomendation system doesn't account for location so it's likely foriegn artists will be reccomended more and more.

    Last.fm rocks because I can go to the artist pages and see an english description of the band and finally understand what's up because the only other references to them on the internet are all in other languages.

    But it comes down to the fact that the whole site is in english, having foriegn wiki's right now would just confuse things. As soon as mulitlanguage support comes up for the site it will be perfect to add foriegn wikis then.

    All comments reflect the views of the poster and not of last.fm or it's management.

  • Nope, don't believe you.

    Sorry, I just don't believe that this policy is simply to avoid confusion. I live in a Gaelic speaking community in an English speaking country and we deal with this all the time. Why does a site have to be designated English only? Plenty of sites I deal with all day are multilingual. Why do English monoglots need to understand all the printed material they encounter? We try to include as much Gaelic info in our bands material as we can to promote the language which is intimately part of what our band is about. English doesn't need any help. I don't mean to beat you up about this as I am sure you are well-meaning and just trying to make the site work, but a little bit of Gaelic in the description of a Gaelic band doesn't hurt anyone but excluding Gaelic and setting up an English only policy really harms internationalism and openness on the web and minority languages that are struggling to survive in an English-dominated world. People are mature enough to just scan past the languages they don't understand or want to read. I do it all day. More on this issue:
    http://www.aber.ac.uk/~merwww/Papers/LangMcLeod.pdf

    • muz sa...
    • Alumni
    • 16 mar 2006, 15:49

    Re:

    Quoth Russ:
    That's why I said English only *currently*. We will likely be introducing other languages soon, but until we have an effective way of seperating them it should only be English.


    Note the currently, mainly for logistical purposes and ease for when multiple languages are supported. Until then, it's just a matter of patience

  • You are really cool people and clearly trying hard but...

    I still don't believe you in part because minority language folks have been dealing with this throughout the web and behind all the rationalizations, it just comes down to advertising dollars (or pounds or yen). With Mandarin, Spanish and Arabic growing so fast on the web, English-language advertisers want to be sure that hits on your site are people who can read the ads. You are selling my fans to advertisers which is fair enough as you are hosting my songs, but the problem comes when advertisers in effect say, “We are not interested in some of your fans. They will just have to go elsewhere to talk about your band.” This is what the socio-linguist Dr. Joshua Fishman has called the English-language-in-culture juggernaut, and it is what is pushing the remaining 6000 languages in the world to the point of extinction. From your perspective, you aren’t doing anything evil, just trying to make your site work, but from my perspective, you are part of the process that is pushing my language and culture over the edge. Uploading music on your site was an experiment. I put the one band up, but I don’t think I will add any others and I will stick with myspace, one of the few mp3 portals that doesn’t have an English-only policy.

    • nokie sa...
    • Användare
    • 17 mar 2006, 12:40

    Re: You are really cool people and clearly trying hard but...

    Quoth millahuilerud:
    I still don't believe you in part because minority language folks have been dealing with this throughout the web and behind all the rationalizations, it just comes down to advertising dollars (or pounds or yen). With Mandarin, Spanish and Arabic growing so fast on the web, English-language advertisers want to be sure that hits on your site are people who can read the ads. You are selling my fans to advertisers which is fair enough as you are hosting my songs, but the problem comes when advertisers in effect say, “We are not interested in some of your fans. They will just have to go elsewhere to talk about your band.”
    This is what the socio-linguist Dr. Joshua Fishman has called the English-language-in-culture juggernaut, and it is what is pushing the remaining 6000 languages in the world to the point of extinction. From your perspective, you aren’t doing anything evil, just trying to make your site work, but from my perspective, you are part of the process that is pushing my language and culture over the edge. Uploading music on your site was an experiment. I put the one band up, but I don’t think I will add any others and I will stick with myspace, one of the few mp3 portals that doesn’t have an English-only policy.


    Hmm, this is a little over the top, I'd say. Again, note the 'currently'. This means they're working on it, and at some point in the (near) future, you will be able to write your own language. How can you not understand that up to that point, they want to stick to one language? How can you oppose to the fact that the crew tries to make one of those very few 'not-messed-up' websites? After that, the current pages will move to 'English'. Otherwise, it'll just be one big pile of rubbish, and who gets better from that?

    Anyway, whether you like it or not, if you want to promote a band to people not speaking your language (and in a 'social community' like last.fm, it'd say that's a pretty fair thing), there's no other way than to speak a 'common' language. And I want to get to know that band too, or do you want to exclude me? I just never will if you don't want me to tell anything about it in a language I understand, and you'll fail your goal as well (to promote the band). Even more, when i know the band, who says I don't get interested in the language (people might laugh now, but by listening to Rammstein, I actually learned more German than I did at school)? Maybe I want to learn it? Or maybe I just like the music and spread it to my friends, and by doing so, I spread your language to even more other people?

    At last, no one has ever said this website is English-only. You can start a group and write in whatever language you like. It's just in the wiki's as they are now...

    • Russ sa...
    • Alumni
    • 17 mar 2006, 13:23
    You are reading FAR too much into this.

    • zzzum sa...
    • Användare
    • 18 mar 2006, 16:41
    soon, the names of all non-english songs will be translated to english too..

    after all, this is an english site, huh?

    oO

    keep listening.
    Redigerad av zzzum den 18 mar 2006, 16:46
    • muz sa...
    • Alumni
    • 18 mar 2006, 16:44
    And your point is?

    If you look here, youll see that the translation is a user-specific option which you choose.

  • A Quick FAQ about the English Only policy:

    Q: When will I be able to add non-English descriptions?
    A: The developers are working on Internationalizing the site, making it available in multiple languages. Once this occurs, each language will have its own wiki page for the artist. Once that occurs, you will be able to add, for example, a Spanish description on the Spanish wiki. This Internationalization will take a while to develop, however. Until that occurs, only English may be used in the wiki.

    Q: Why can't I use the language the artist sings in?
    A: This is an English-Only site for now. You won't find random non-English pages on other English sites. This site is no different. When Internationalization is implemented, the current wiki pages will be the English wiki. Adding non-English descriptions now will leave a load of non-English on an English wiki.

    Q: Can I write a non-English description after the English description on the same page?
    A: No, only English in the current wiki. When Internationalization is implemented, the current wiki pages will become the English wiki. Adding non-English descriptions after English descriptions will leave a load of non-English on an English wiki.

    Q: What about artist names, song titles, album names? Do those have to be translated?
    A: No. If the song title is Spanish, for example, it can remain Spanish. The descriptions of the songs or artist must be English though. Placing an English translation of the song/album name in parentheses after the actual name in the wiki is helpful, but not required.




    Disclaimer: None of the devs have verified these answers to be 100% accurate. If there's staff reading this that can confirm these or correct them, please do. (The above is free to use on a wiki FAQ page if one is started.)

    ...
  • Re: You are really cool people and clearly trying hard but...

    Quoth millahuilerud:
    (...)
    **A long story about feeling that nobody takes other languages serious.**
    (...)

    Just to show you that 'the real world' is not too fair either. Check wikipedia in english and in Deutsch. Please note, Rammstein is a German band, they sing in german. However on the (english) wikipedia there is a story in English. No german translation underneath, no german text.
    Wikipedia has already been internationalised, and for last.fm we are waiting till a small crew will find enough time to do so, meanwhile struggling to make sure everything here runs smooth. And trying to implement every good idea yesterday, since loads of non-paying people (feel they) need it...

    Try to understand that internet have made a few boundaries and borders dissapear. However, the fact that someone in England listens to a German, or Japanese band doesn't automatically lead to him or her reading Greman or Japanese. Or Russian, or Spanish, French, Dutch, Swahili...
    For now, English only, and patience...

    Remember to say "thank you" for the things you haven't had
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