Forum » Feedback and Ideas

October 21st site update - forthcoming changes for subscribers

 
  • UK/Ger/USA - random radio, even on the internet should be free and advertising supported. I also think, all countires should get this feature, ideally anyway.

    Absolutely anything else above that, should be subscription radio and 3.00 a month works for some of the features, like removal of advertising. However, I also would like to see all-access radio and on-demand services at Lastfm for 5 or 6 dollars and someone at Lastfm and CBS, needs to negotiate with the big four for providing content.

    Warner Music Group is slowly realizing their major mistakes these past few years, but they keep going back and forth, give and take, with You Tube and on-demand, streaming services alike. Last official word was early this year, as WMG decided to pull all their material from all internet streaming services.

    thisisall1word said:
    @dankine & @CrybKeeper

    The Majors will pay for the powerplay stuff right? But normal radio play isn't paid for by the labels, only *forced* plays.

    When normal non-internet radio plays a U2 track does the label cut some sort of recompense or just the artist, song writer and publisher? (sorry because i know this must have been asked before)...


    I cannot speak for the major labels, but yes - musicians and labels can purchase a Powerplay campaign for Lastfm. This gets you 100 'forced' plays for $20.00 in USA monies. The Powerplay campaign is very limited and lacking features, not editable, cannot be targeted demographically and limited on amount of similar artists. Very disappointing really, but there was some talk about running some new ideas past the Lastfm team in charge of this(of course, that was long time ago and then nothing more was said).

    If U2 have a contract with a label, that label makes all the deals and have all permissions of copyright. But, since this is a contract, any type of clause can be written into that and agreed upon by the artist and label. generally, a new artist, who is about to make it big will sign away their lives and all rights, because they are walking on thin ice, so to speak. Then later down the road, as they become more successful and have a bit of personal power, they may see they were taken for a long ride, off a very tall cliff. When a contract expires, it can be re-negotiated, of course.

    Redigerad av CrybKeeper den 28 okt 2010, 17:57
  • Good thing but...

    I like the new station with the mix of library and recommendations. Being able to listen to "old" and "new" songs in one station is a great feature. Between listening to what you already like you can coincidentally discover new likes.

    Still it'd be nice to have the "playlist" station back. A feature with which you can choose single songs to listen to is now - without the full-track streaming - more needed than ever.

  • I realise this post is all a bit late given last night’s news about mix radio. However, adding on from Sam’s post:

    Mix Radio is a new station we are developing that mixes your loved tracks, personal library, and recommendations into a single station, so you can listen to music you love while also discovering new tracks.

    Something we made sure of (as part of the secret sauce) is that loving tracks and tagging tracks does influence the algorithm for Mix Radio. Those still directly influence the kind of radio experience you'll get from it.

    That said, and like AdrienneA pointed out, it's not a straight replacement. First we couldn't guarantee it was going to be ready in time, and we still haven't rolled it out across the site (we'll be doing that in early November).

    Secondly, it isn't the same kind of experience. Mix is a randomised station with a potentially huge catalog. As far as licensing is concerned it works the same way as any other station we offer. The stations we're turning off involve bespoke licenses. As acreature pointed out, licensing is difficult and to maintain the service at Last.fm’s heart we’ve had to remove three core subscriber-only stations. These stations represent a large proportion of our outlay in licensing costs. We’ve been fighting really hard to maintain these stations, at a loss, but this was something we could no longer do.

    Many of you have suggested increasing the subscriber rate, and believe me we considered it long and hard, but still the numbers didn’t add up.

    We’re still committed to finding ways of using your data on other services, as we have with 3rd party playlinks, so please continue to post your preferred services so we can work together to provide the right export. It’s worth mentioning that http://spotibot.com/ already allow you to import your loved tracks into a spotify playlist.

    Mix Radio will be available in the new release of the client for everyone, subscriber or not (in the UK/US/Germany at least). The update has gone out, simply restart your client to update, or download here.

    In the meantime anyone can try out the mix station in the client by opening the following URL in your browser:

    lastfm://user/*YOUR LAST.FM USERNAME*/mix

    Redigerad av Knapster01 den 29 okt 2010, 09:14
    • yannxou sa...
    • Användare
    • 28 okt 2010, 17:52

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Mix Radio

    StudleyUK said:
    yannxou said:
    Will users from outside UK still have to pay to listen the new Mix Radio?
    Your Mix Radio is a non-subscriber station offering, just like Your Library. Normal territorial rules apply - if you're outside the UK, US or Germany, a subscription is required to listen to any station.

    What benefits will have subscribers after nov 17th?The subscriber benefits are listed here. As above, if you're outside the UK, US or Germany, a subscription is required to listen to any station, making it the primary subscription benefit in most territories.


    Thanks for your answer.

  • Knapster01 said:
    I realise this post is all a bit late given last night’s news about mix radio. However, adding on from Sam’s post:

    [quote[Mix Radio is a new station we are developing that mixes your loved tracks, personal library, and recommendations into a single station, so you can listen to music you love while also discovering new tracks.

    Something we made sure of (as part of the secret sauce) is that loving tracks and tagging tracks does influence the algorithm for Mix Radio. Those still directly influence the kind of radio experience you'll get from it.

    That said, and like AdrienneA pointed out, it's not a straight replacement. First we couldn't guarantee it was going to be ready in time, and we still haven't rolled it out across the site (we'll be doing that in early November).

    Secondly, it isn't the same kind of experience. Mix is a randomised station with a potentially huge catalog. As far as licensing is concerned it works the same way as any other station we offer. The stations we're turning off involve bespoke licenses. As acreature pointed out, licensing is difficult and to maintain the service at Last.fm’s heart we’ve had to remove three core subscriber-only stations. These stations represent a large proportion of our outlay in licensing costs. We’ve been fighting really hard to maintain these stations, at a loss, but this was something we could no longer do.

    Many of you have suggested increasing the subscriber rate, and believe me we considered it long and hard, but still the numbers didn’t add up.

    We’re still committed to finding ways of using your data on other services, as we have with 3rd party playlinks, so please continue to post your preferred services so we can work together to provide the right export. It’s worth mentioning that http://spotibot.com/ already allow you to import your loved tracks into a spotify playlist.

    Mix Radio will be available in the new release of the client for everyone, subscriber or not (in the UK/US/Germany at least). The update has gone out, simply restart your client to update, or download here.

    In the meantime anyone can try out the mix station in the client by opening the following URL in your browser:

    lastfm://user/*YOUR LAST.FM USERNAME*/mix


    VERY informative and helpful! Thank you Knapster! =)

    Numbers didn't add up? Are these numbers based on current Lastfm subscribers? Wouldn't 'ordered' playlists, at least triple the subscriber number? I know this would mean a different type license, but 'ordered' playlists could be an optional premium subscription.

    *Uh, I'll bet you thought I would finally, shut my pie hole :p*

  • Thanks for the public clarifications, Matt, and as mentioned earlier, I really like the Mix / Adventure radio since it was internally introduced.

    • headey sa...
    • Användare
    • 28 okt 2010, 18:13

    A prestigious black icon

    StudleyUK said:
    The subscriber benefits are listed here.

    I love no.4 on that link
    Subscribe to Last.fm
    What you get:
    A prestigious black icon

    You could at least have put a ;-) next to it!
    ? Did someone write that with a straight face? That looks SO much like scrabbling round for selling points.

    Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.
    Ludwig Wittgenstein
    -but how boring life would be

    headey cocktail
  • Trying out the Mix Radio:

    Got a rap song, then a folk singer, next Celtic metal song and then into meditative/ambient =( Sure, all four of them are my loved tracks and that's okay sometimes, but I still want my tag and , and =)

  • Mog catalogue

    CrybKeeper said:
    And, if the music exists on the web, Mog will have it. Their catalogue definitely rivals Lastfms catalogue, more so than most other music sites anyway.


    Sadly, not quite (or not quite yet). As part of my research I've already had to start a new tag: . But on the plus side I've found stuff at Mog that is still not at last.fm.

  • Re: A prestigious black icon

    headey said:
    StudleyUK said:
    The subscriber benefits are listed here.

    I love no.4 on that link
    Subscribe to Last.fm
    What you get:
    A prestigious black icon

    You could at least have put a ;-) next to it!
    ? Did someone write that with a straight face? That looks SO much like scrabbling round for selling points.


    Well um, a little green square for those who gave a certain amount of gift subs, would make it more nicerish ;-)...Then again, that might bring out the beggars and booty kissers, so maybe not. But maybe it could go green, for the most helpful forumers/members?

    • headey sa...
    • Användare
    • 28 okt 2010, 18:27
    Knapster01 said:
    We’ve been fighting really hard to maintain these stations, at a loss, but this was something we could no longer do.
    Many of you have suggested increasing the subscriber rate, and believe me we considered it long and hard, but still the numbers didn’t add up.
    Thanks for your answer Knapster.

    I know you can't say, but wouldn't we just LOVE to know even a ballpark figure of what a deluxe subscription might have cost us.

    I presume some people/subscribers might have an idea because you must have done some market research on us in the last few months?

    Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.
    Ludwig Wittgenstein
    -but how boring life would be

    headey cocktail
    • akrde sa...
    • Användare
    • 28 okt 2010, 18:34
    Knapster01 said:
    We’re still committed to finding ways of using your data on other services, as we have with 3rd party playlinks, so please continue to post your preferred services so we can work together to provide the right export.


    3rd party playlinks and export are bad options for integrating partner sites/services.

    You've read JustSomeOldJoe's post about much better integration ideas, didn't you?

  • @Knapster01 & AlphaDivxMovies: Is this the thread of the broken quote? ...i can't follow... Who's Sam, what did AdrienneA point out where and what part did you add?

    • Ant718 sa...
    • Abonnent
    • 28 okt 2010, 19:04
    Mix Radio is all nice & good but can someone please fix it so it does not play holiday music from my library? I have already had to skip 3 Christmas songs. K, thanks.

    P.S. will xbox live have the Mix Radio station as well?

    • akrde sa...
    • Användare
    • 28 okt 2010, 19:07
    HodgeStar said:
    @Knapster01 & AlphaDivxMovies: Is this the thread of the broken quote? ...i can't follow... Who's Sam, what did AdrienneA point out where and what part did you add?


    Sam = c99koder
    http://www.last.fm/group/Last.fm+Android/forum/114391/_/654201/_/13745897

    AdrienneA
    http://www.last.fm/forum/21717/_/653360/_/13760660

  • akrde said:
    HodgeStar said:
    @Knapster01 & AlphaDivxMovies: Is this the thread of the broken quote? ...i can't follow... Who's Sam, what did AdrienneA point out where and what part did you add?


    Sam = c99koder
    http://www.last.fm/group/Last.fm+Android/forum/114391/_/654201/_/13745897

    AdrienneA
    http://www.last.fm/forum/21717/_/653360/_/13760660
    thanks.

    • fmera sa...
    • Användare
    • 28 okt 2010, 19:41

    Re:Re: Re: Re: Mix Radio

    StudleyUK said:
    yannxou said:
    Will users from outside UK still have to pay to listen the new Mix Radio?
    Your Mix Radio is a non-subscriber station offering, just like Your Library. Normal territorial rules apply - if you're outside the UK, US or Germany, a subscription is required to listen to any station.

    What benefits will have subscribers after nov 17th?The subscriber benefits are listed here. As above, if you're outside the UK, US or Germany, a subscription is required to listen to any station, making it the primary subscription benefit in most territories.
    thks - now it's clear that international subscribers of last.fm outside those countries are lower down the food chain than even non-subscribers in those countries.

    U.G.L.Y. - changing the face of music, one artist at a time.
    there are some things pngs can't fix. for everything else, there's pngoptimizer.
  • is that the end of lastfm?

  • Re: Re:Re: Re: Re: Mix Radio

    fmera said:
    StudleyUK said:
    yannxou said:
    Will users from outside UK still have to pay to listen the new Mix Radio?
    Your Mix Radio is a non-subscriber station offering, just like Your Library. Normal territorial rules apply - if you're outside the UK, US or Germany, a subscription is required to listen to any station.

    What benefits will have subscribers after nov 17th?The subscriber benefits are listed here. As above, if you're outside the UK, US or Germany, a subscription is required to listen to any station, making it the primary subscription benefit in most territories.
    thks - now it's clear that international subscribers of last.fm outside those countries are lower down the food chain than even non-subscribers in those countries.


    True. I have been subscribing for 3 yrs now and a brand new user in the UK will have the same features as myself if I subscribe again. So much for loyalty.

    follow my tweets on twitter.com/clearer_skies
    • Citizen1 sa...
    • Användare
    • 28 okt 2010, 19:58

    Re: A prestigious black icon

    headey said:
    StudleyUK said:
    The subscriber benefits are listed here.

    I love no.4 on that link
    Subscribe to Last.fm
    What you get:
    A prestigious black icon

    You could at least have put a ;-) next to it!
    ? Did someone write that with a straight face? That looks SO much like scrabbling round for selling points.
    Oh, good lord, I cannot believe that went unnoticed for so long. I've always thought that looked utterly ridiculous. It's just totally pathetic. I could go on.
    There is nothing remotely prestigious about a 4 by 4 pixel black icon (if you can even call it that - square is more like it).

    Also, I don't get #1, 'Uninterrupted radio listening' - I've never had interruptions of any kind when I've been listening to the radio as a non-subscriber. What's the deal?

    Working to become a more pleasant Citizen 2.0 : )
    • akrde sa...
    • Användare
    • 28 okt 2010, 20:07

    Re: Re: A prestigious black icon

    Citizen1 said:
    Also, I don't get #1, 'Uninterrupted radio listening' - I've never had interruptions of any kind when I've been listening to the radio as a non-subscriber. What's the deal?


    http://www.last.fm/help/faq?category=98#349

    • percy74 sa...
    • Användare
    • 28 okt 2010, 20:11

    Re: Re: Re: A prestigious black icon

    akrde said:
    Citizen1 said:
    Also, I don't get #1, 'Uninterrupted radio listening' - I've never had interruptions of any kind when I've been listening to the radio as a non-subscriber. What's the deal?


    http://www.last.fm/help/faq?category=98#349
    There's also no interruption at all if you use the client instead of the web-based player.

    • bhaeser sa...
    • Användare
    • 28 okt 2010, 20:15
    Knapster01 said...

    Something we made sure of (as part of the secret sauce) is that loving tracks and tagging tracks does influence the algorithm for Mix Radio.


    Does tagging artists and/or albums influence the Mix Radio as well, or is it specifically influenced by the tagging of individual tracks?

    • ITFCJez sa...
    • Användare
    • 28 okt 2010, 20:21

    Re:Re: discontinuing subscriber-only radio stations

    Knapster01 said:
    Pedro_71 said:
    This is really a shock! Many users put a lot of energy into putting together their own tags. This was a great way to enjoy music...
    If it requires that much energy make it a delux service for extra charge...

    I have been a great supporter so far... You will definitely lose many such people...

    We're looking at ways for you to export playlists of your Loved Tracks, Personal Tags and Playlists. It's going to take a little longer to get the finer details ironed out though.


    I have been a subscriber for pretty much 5 years on here and I've spent that time building up my own personal tag stations to suit my musical moods and adding to them as I either hear something new from Last FM that I like or songs from CDs that I buy etc.

    Although it'll be nice to be able to export the list (something that would have been a great idea if done a long time before now), I am really gutted that you are taking away my great source of enjoyment by taking away either our 'loved' stations or stations that we have tagged especially for our own purposes.

    My wife and I (who I incidentally met through Last FM) are both really saddened by this news and are debating whether to continue our subscriptions when we're losing the thing we both love the most and have invested the time in and what was one of the reasons that we got in touch with each other.

    I genuinely think you'll lose a lot of subscribers because of this, in my opinion. I really wish you'd reconsider or hope you have something pretty special up your sleeves to compensate this loss... but I struggle to think what could beat what you're taking away.

    Redigerad av ITFCJez den 28 okt 2010, 20:26
  • RE: A prestigious black icon

    Um - I always thought that this one was completely tongue in cheek - I would take it that way and don't treat it as a serious reason that last.fm give us for upgrading.

    [sarcasm]Take away our small black square and I'll definitely be asking for a refund[/sarcasm]

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