Forum » Feedback and Ideas

What the hell happened to all the shoutboxes?

 
  • Couldtryharder said:
    I would also be very interested to hear about the concrete and specific ways this change affects you personally. What are the things that you're not able to do now, compared to before?


    I feel that for some of the people that use this site more for the social aspect than the scrobbling of listening data (users like myself and every friend I've met on this site), it stifles discussion quite a bit. We may only be a small percentage according to the numbers, but Last.fm has developed a culture and sometimes your administrative decisions hurt it in ways that aren't readily apparent to you.

    In the case of this change, as others have said, this is not good for those of us that like to make conversation in the shoutboxes. What was in place before was pretty much the perfect balance of shouts per page, enough that any discussion doesn't feel truncated, but not so much that there were a lot of irrelevant shouts still on the page. I feel less like I want to pitch in to a discussion if my shout is going to be buried after just eight more have been made. You'll probably say I could just hit the button at the bottom of the box to see more shouts, but honestly, most of us don't bother unless there's a discussion we particularly want to trace back.

    I'm not a Facebook user, but imagine if they limited your status feed to eight per page and you had to hit a button to see any of the older ones. If there are a lot of people making conversation, that would make things quite cumbersome, wouldn't it? I don't think the split second loading difference I'm supposed to be seeing is worth making the shoutbox less intuitive for those of us that actually use it.

  • ^ This.

    Also, forgive me as i'm not great at site design or anything...but if it was a case of loading more shouts the way some other sites do...like say you click a little arrow that would load more shouts below it instead of having to move to a whole new page...that'd be good too. Does that make any sense? Like Facebook does? When you scroll down on your 'wall' you can click 'Older posts', a little 'buffering' circle does it's thing for half a second and then there's more shouts...so the user has control over what is and is not shown. That'd be rad. =)

    • MATI9630 sa...
    • Användare
    • 23 maj 2012, 23:26
    Test_room's solution would be a good one... if I understood him correctly.

    One moment I think that I see your (staff) point or where you're coming from but then again... after I read your post, your nickname seemed very appropiate to the situation and your arguments (Couldtryharder).

    Overall, I can't say anything smart without repeating myself or the others - we nailed it, if you can't put yourselves in our position, then I'm sorry.

    There's one more thing I don't understand. Why limit the change to artist/event pages? Why not albums/songs?
    WHERE do you see long discussions (well, NOW obviously, nowhere... except for forum maybe)? On artist pages or on track pages? Let's face it, majority of the comments appearing on song's shoutbox is similar to each other. There's hardly any conversation as people don't bother to check it twice, they just drop by and say how much they love/hate the song.

    So why the change? Because /music/artist/ is the one more visited?
    That makes no sense whatsoever.

    ...and I'm afraid that my post would contribute to giving album pages 8 shouts instead of 20 as well.

    With all my negative attitude, of course I'm still going to use this site. It just won't be as fun. There are a few cases where simplifying things is a step forward; sadly this is not one of them. I like last.fm very much and I don't want to see it -slowly- turning for the worse.

    Btw, menyauthe, on FB you usually see 2 comments to status :p But yeah, it's one click and 50 more load instantly - without having to load new page.
    Like on last.fm.

    edit: I took test_room's idea for being the same as JustAKayee's. I think it would be the only solution pleasing everybody right now. (since you're so stubborn about not reverting changes >_>)

    /\ true /\
  • ^ lol
    I do think it's the best solution...no idea how hard it'd be to introduce but it certainly seems a popular suggestion in this thread at least.

    • Schander sa...
    • Användare
    • 24 maj 2012, 02:38
    Couldtryharder said:

    Nobody here wants to make Last.fm "less social" or to make shoutboxes less interesting. But our data clearly shows that shoutboxes are used only by a small minority of the people who visit Last.fm (when I say "used" I'm referring both to posting shouts, and to scrolling down to read them. We collect data on both).

    We will monitor the effect of the changes, and if there is any measurable change in the way people use shoutboxes, we'll reassess our decision. We should have enough data to make a judgement in a couple of weeks.

    So... what you're saying is, that when all of us will massively start scrolling down and clicking on "see all shouts", you guys will change it back? 8)

    • snyde1 sa...
    • Abonnent
    • 24 maj 2012, 03:04
    Couldtryharder said:
    Pages with fewer shouts are cleaner, and they load faster, which is a benefit to everyone. As a significant majority (over 90%) of people visiting these pages don't use the shoutboxes at all, we felt it was justifiable to reduce the number of shouts displayed on the first page.

    We recognise that this means that people who want to see shouts 9 to 20 will now have to make one more click, but I hope you can understand why we feel this was the right decision.
    Thank you for recognising the actions of the majority. I would not miss "shouts" if they were done away with entirely.

    Improve your view of Last.fm - add some User Scripts.
    Did I hear that right? Mondegreens - for the misheard word. Like Odds? Can't get better than Even Odds!

    Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.
    • DFA1979 sa...
    • Abonnent
    • 24 maj 2012, 06:54
    snyde1 said:
    Thank you for recognising the actions of the majority. I would not miss "shouts" if they were done away with entirely.
    Same here. Every time I read an artist shoutbox I lose a little more faith in humanity.

    • Babs_05 sa...
    • Moderator
    • 24 maj 2012, 09:33
    Doesn't make any difference, as far as I can see. I always click on 'Shoutbox' for a full page. (where shouts are worth reading, might I add....)

    • MATI9630 sa...
    • Användare
    • 24 maj 2012, 12:07
    snyde1 said:
    ]Thank you for recognising the actions of the majority. I would not miss "shouts" if they were done away with entirely.


    Sure, why not do that!
    Remove the shoutboxes from user pages as well, we have private messages, don't we?

    /\ true /\
    • Schander sa...
    • Användare
    • 24 maj 2012, 12:26
    DFA1979 said:
    snyde1 said:
    Thank you for recognising the actions of the majority. I would not miss "shouts" if they were done away with entirely.
    Same here. Every time I read an artist shoutbox I lose a little more faith in humanity.

    Just because you lack the incentive to participate in a discussion, doesn't mean we all have to suffer from it.

    • DFA1979 sa...
    • Abonnent
    • 24 maj 2012, 12:52
    That's not what I said, and I could just as well say that just because you like them doesn't mean they should be considered a high priority for the (apparently >90%) people who don't care. I'm not demanding they drop everything, ignore everybody who's not me, and do what I say. I'm providing a relevant opinion: I wouldn't miss them. Not because I'm unwilling to participate in discussion, but because there's practically never any discussion going on in them.

    If something interesting were said more than once in a blue moon I'd probably like them. Until there's a way to do something about the whole "inane comment here [3467913]" nonsense they're a complete waste of screen space and bandwidth as far as I'm concerned, and I see no reason this feedback is any less legitimate than yours.

    • Alainn sa...
    • Användare
    • 24 maj 2012, 13:02
    DFA1979 said:
    That's not what I said, and I could just as well say that just because you like them doesn't mean they should be considered a high priority for the (apparently >90%) people who don't care. I'm not demanding they drop everything, ignore everybody who's not me, and do what I say. I'm providing a relevant opinion: I wouldn't miss them. Not because I'm unwilling to participate in discussion, but because there's practically never any discussion going on in them.

    If something interesting were said more than once in a blue moon I'd probably like them. Until there's a way to do something about the whole "inane comment here [3467913]" nonsense they're a complete waste of screen space and bandwidth as far as I'm concerned, and I see no reason this feedback is any less legitimate than yours.
    Agreed, the number of inane comments is staggering (main reason I've disabled that section). Besides if I really wanted to follow a specific shoutbox than there's always the RSS-feed for it.


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  • I think we should be able to say whatever we like in the shoutbox as long as it doesn't go against site rules, i don't think anything should be 'done' about comments followed by numbers as it's obviously what the (apparently less than 10%) enjoy. It's not the content of the shoutbox that we're even debating, it's the amount of shouts that are immediately visible to users of the site...and the suggestions that have been put forward suit everyone. Either see no shouts, some shouts or a lot of shouts and have it be your choice.

  • JustAKayee said:
    ^ This.

    Also, forgive me as i'm not great at site design or anything...but if it was a case of loading more shouts the way some other sites do...like say you click a little arrow that would load more shouts below it instead of having to move to a whole new page...that'd be good too. Does that make any sense? Like Facebook does? When you scroll down on your 'wall' you can click 'Older posts', a little 'buffering' circle does it's thing for half a second and then there's more shouts...so the user has control over what is and is not shown. That'd be rad. =)

    This.

    I was going to suggest the same thing but I didn't know the technical terms for it either so I didn't lol

    • [Raderad användare] sa...
    • Användare
    • 24 maj 2012, 16:05
    Can anyone honestly say that the shoutboxes (as they were previously) adversely effected their enjoyment/usage of this site? I doubt it.

    • DFA1979 sa...
    • Abonnent
    • 24 maj 2012, 16:18
    JustAKayee said:
    It's not the content of the shoutbox that we're even debating, it's the amount of shouts that are immediately visible to users of the site..
    You make it sound like they're unrelated. The content of the shoutbox is precisely why I want to see as little of it as possible.

  • DFA1979 said:
    You make it sound like they're unrelated. The content of the shoutbox is precisely why I want to see as little of it as possible.

    Why do you even look if the content is such a bother to you that you want it to go away? You're not really advocating getting rid of (or truncating, whatever it is you're arguing for) the shoutboxes for any reason other than to pander to your evident lack of self-control.

    Either way, this is unimportant to the discussion at large. Last.fm is intended to be a social music site, and suggesting we rub out such a large portion of the social aspect is nothing less than ludicrous. There's really no worth in arguing about this as if getting rid of the artist shoutboxes is something that would actually happen.

    • Schander sa...
    • Användare
    • 24 maj 2012, 17:01
    DFA1979 said:
    That's not what I said, and I could just as well say that just because you like them doesn't mean they should be considered a high priority for the (apparently >90%) people who don't care.

    No, you couldn't... because I'm not the one demanding an INcrease to suit my needs, just no DEcrease. I'm having a very hard time believing such a high percentage of people on here, aren't using these shoutboxes in any way. In my humble opinion, that's just bull. I mean, what's the point of simply scrobbling your music and nothing else... not using one of the many other aspects this website has to offer.

  • menyauthe said:
    DFA1979 said:
    You make it sound like they're unrelated. The content of the shoutbox is precisely why I want to see as little of it as possible.

    Why do you even look if the content is such a bother to you that you want it to go away? You're not really advocating getting rid of (or truncating, whatever it is you're arguing for) the shoutboxes for any reason other than to pander to your evident lack of self-control.

    Either way, this is unimportant to the discussion at large. Last.fm is intended to be a social music site, and suggesting we rub out such a large portion of the social aspect is nothing less than ludicrous. There's really no worth in arguing about this as if getting rid of the artist shoutboxes is something that would actually happen.


    This would have been my exact response. It is completely unrelated. Last.fm didn't reduce the amount of shouts that are visible on the artist page because of the content, they did it for the loading times.

    • DFA1979 sa...
    • Abonnent
    • 24 maj 2012, 19:47
    menyauthe said:
    Why do you even look if the content is such a bother to you that you want it to go away?
    I don't, as a general rule. Which is why I said I wouldn't miss them if they were removed, and haven't at any point demanded that they be removed. Unfortunately, people who like them appear to be either unable or unwilling to see that.

    Speaking of which…
    Schander said:
    No, you couldn't... because I'm not the one demanding an INcrease to suit my needs, just no DEcrease.
    Feel free to show me where I demanded anything :)

    Honestly, I don't understand why people seem to think I'm advocating genocide against shoutboxes and their users. All I've said is that in my opinion they're overwhelmed with inane comments and as such I wouldn't miss them if they were removed. I've offered a relevant opinion, not demanded or even requested staff actually do anything about it. Can you not see past the obvious hyperbole of my 'faith in humanity' comment or something?

  • I've offered a relevant opinion, not demanded or even requested staff actually do anything about it.

    You're slightly off-topic then, lol.
    This thread is about the shoutbox and the amount of shouts we see - the amount having been recently reduced.
    Your opinion is yours and you're entitled to it and in other threads i'm sure it's relevant...but not in this thread because this thread isn't about inane comments or your lack of faith in humanity. It's about the amount of shouts we see per artist page. =/

    • Schander sa...
    • Användare
    • 24 maj 2012, 21:59
    DFA1979 said:
    Schander said:
    No, you couldn't... because I'm not the one demanding an INcrease to suit my needs, just no DEcrease.

    Feel free to show me where I demanded anything :)
    I was speaking in general, not referring to you personally... but forget about it, 'cause this is getting us nowhere.

    • [Raderad användare] sa...
    • Användare
    • 25 maj 2012, 00:25

    [spam]

    [spam]

    Redigerad av Babs_05 den 11 aug 2012, 15:43
  • Hello everyone,

    I should have been clearer before. We *are* looking at other ways to display shoutboxes, like the ones some of you have described. Unfortunately I can't make any promises about when these might be released.

    Bloody-Lunar - you're kind of right about Google/YouTube. But they have vastly greater financial resources, and approximately thirty three thousand more people on staff than us.

    cjkisaragi - our research indicates that pages with fewer shouts work better for most people. We A/B tested this with about 20,000 people.

    Have a good weekend, and thanks for caring about Last.fm

    • -Trail- sa...
    • Användare
    • 25 maj 2012, 16:20
    How about you do away with shoutboxes altogether? This would probably speed up the page load times even more? In their place however you could introduce a discussion page about the artist with a similar structure to the way the forums work on here, and link to it on the main artist page? This would make conversation on different topics much more structured and would probably remove those "insert inane comment here [34]" style posts as well?

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