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Why is "Disneyland" worse than "Various Artists" or "Unknown Artist?"

 
    • Stichey sa...
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    • 9 maj 2012, 23:57

    Why is "Disneyland" worse than "Various Artists" or "Unknown Artist?"

    Hi!

    As a long time Last FM (Audioscrobbler) user/fan, I must admit that I am dismayed at the recent alteration from "Disneyland" being a catch-all for the usually unlisted musical soundtracks from the attractions and various "lands." Previously, someone was criticizing the multiple enthusiasts from using this track by substituting a "Keep Last FM Clean" image from the one being used by the group and not a woefully obscure band (which doesn't even seem real) has been swapped in as a "better" alternative for what used to be a great way for park enthusiasts to remain connected. My question is, if whoever was responsible for the change is so against "Disneyland" as a tag, why are they not equally active in trying to find a reasonable fix for this and everyone using the "Disneyland" tag? Previous people have suggested using Music Brainz, but often, Music Brainz only suggests listing a composer and not the performer at best and often suggests "Various Artist" or "Unknown" at worst. And when the goal is to "keep Last FM clean," how is seeing "Various Artist" better than "Disneyland?"

    Given that more than 5,000 people have been "incorrectly" using this tag (and seemingly NONE of them for the band that is listed), it seems that whomever is moderating the Disneyland tag could actually try to help people rather than ruining the tag and leaving it up to the Disneyland enthusiasts to fend for themselves while, likely, creating even more "bad tags" (i.e. attributing tags to the attractions, or to "Disney" or something else all together).

    It would be fantastic if someone could actually try to resolve this issue (since it is also true to Walt Disney World, Epcot Center, Epcot Illuminations, etc.)

    • liftarn sa...
    • Wiki Moderator
    • 22 maj 2012, 10:12
    Disneyland is the name of an actual existing artist. While auto-correction is a handy tool it is better if the users at least try to fix their tags themselves. Using a MusicBrainz aware tagger also has the advantage of the MBID tags that can be used for instance to tell different artist with the same name apart.

    As far as I can tell http://musicbrainz.org/release-group/c2e12531-79b6-36e1-a9af-3c8a49a3bacb and http://musicbrainz.org/release/2462b5d6-3446-437e-b3a4-f585de7a7317 covers most if not all tags incorrectly tagged as "Disneyland".

    Please do yourself and Last.fm a favour and fix your tags. The easiest way is to use Musicbrainz Picard.
    • Stichey sa...
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    • 15 jun 2012, 05:49
    In many of the Disney Park soundtracks that I checked through MusicBrainz, more often than not, the composer was being credited as the performer, which doesn't seem to be doing very much for having clean tags for Last FM and seems akin to giving Leiber and Stoller credit over Elvis. Given the large number of people who are all committing the same "mistake," it just seemed like an automated solution might get this "corrected" and still promote a community around those that like Disney Theme Park music. Without a larger fix, LastFM is now making it harder for people to have their tastes compared given that some are using the Theme Park name, some using MusicBrainz (which is often the composer and NOT the performer) and others using the attraction or event name or who knows what - none of which helps get to a clean tag solution. It just seems that if LastFM is going to protect the actual artist of "Disneyland" over the theme park that has had distinct, but often, unattributed music since 1955, it seems that a better solution could be devised that protects the integrity of the site AND Disney Music enthusiasts. The current "fix" now has me with 650+ of a band that I never knew existed and now there are thousands of other LastFM fans with the same issue.

    • liftarn sa...
    • Wiki Moderator
    • 15 jun 2012, 11:20
    For soundtracks (including soundtracks for a theme park) it is standard practice to use the composers as the performers often are unnamed studio musicians.

    Please do yourself and Last.fm a favour and fix your tags. The easiest way is to use Musicbrainz Picard.
  • Disneyland is the name of an actual existing artist? Sounds like hogwash to me. I'm a fan of a pretty obscure band who once called themselves "The Happiest Place on Earth" but were forced to change it when Disney threatened them with a lawsuit. I doubt a band called "Disneyland" would last more than a couple days unless they were actually related in some way to the theme park.

  • LOL

    So you just want to discard the lesser known band because you have your tags wrong? Seems fair.

  • No, I understand the need for accuracy on a site like this. But I still don't intend to "fix" my tags because it makes perfect sense to categorize Disneyland music as "Disneyland" in one's own iTunes library.

    • dankine sa...
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    • 16 jun 2012, 20:35
    nicely ignoring the fact they're wrong.

    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
    "I don't want to believe, I want to know"

    Auto Corrections Group
  • Yes, I ignore truths that are inconvenient to me like the shameless buffoon I am!

  • Maybe I'm missing something here, but why not just tag them as "Disney", or "Disney Land"? Why does it have to be "Disneyland"?

  • It doesn't "have" to be anything. But the name of the park is "Disneyland." Some of us like the songs/soundscapes/narrations from this park because they remind us of being there at particular times in our lives. On another level though, I really can't believe I'm arguing about this.

  • I wasn't arguing. I tried to offer a work around. You will not win because there is a pre existing artist with that name. Overloading an artists page with Disney stuff isn't really fair, especially when the Disneyland Park is not even an artist. It's a theme park.

    I get that it's easier to group all the park sounds under one name, much like I have done with the Fallout 3 soundtrack. I tagged all tracks as "Fallout 3" because it reminds me of the game, but that still doesn't make it right.

    I'll just go back to not caring.

  • Try as I might to find any information about the real Disneyland, it seems that Google and Wikipedia etc. are all overloaded with Disney stuff.

    Seriously though, can someone tell me about this artist? I'm genuinely curious.

  • http://mutant-sounds.blogspot.co.uk/2007/02/va-one-stop-shopping-3-tapes-1981.html

    They have 2 tracks on tape one, side a. Took a grand total of 30 seconds to find.

  • You sir are a true search engine optimization master. I am humbled.

    • liftarn sa...
    • Wiki Moderator
    • 18 jun 2012, 10:01
    Or you could just have clicked the link under "More Information" to the right in the artist page of Disneyland that leads to http://musicbrainz.org/artist/17f34e16-16ae-4de7-843c-dd5679cf2435

    Please do yourself and Last.fm a favour and fix your tags. The easiest way is to use Musicbrainz Picard.
    • Stichey sa...
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    • 19 jun 2012, 00:19
    The "Australian band" called Disneyland that is being "protected" was, according to Musicbrainz, formed or first recorded in 1980, so why they get precedent over a 1955 location synonymous with its own music frequently not tied to any performing artist is beyond me. And in the same way that Wikipedia can distinguish between two things that share the same name, my hope was to find a way to protect fans of that band (and their two Musicbrainz listings) and the 5000+ Last FM fans that adore music from the Disneyland park but are now being misattributed to the aforementioned band. And sure, you can say that we've all tagged it wrong, but really, even if they are all wrong, it's at least worth protecting that 5000+ community of Disneyland fans in some way. Again, I am a HUGE LastFM fan, but Disney music has long pushed the boundaries of what constitutes a correct tag, so I think an external solution outside of "Various Artists" is in order (and really, if listing the Composer who did not perform the music is acceptable, why is listing the theme park name which is in such heavy usage by so many people such a stretch)?

    • liftarn sa...
    • Wiki Moderator
    • 19 jun 2012, 08:43
    Stichey said:
    The "Australian band" called Disneyland that is being "protected" was, according to Musicbrainz, formed or first recorded in 1980, so why they get precedent over a 1955 location synonymous with its own music frequently not tied to any performing artist is beyond me.


    Because they are an actual artist while what you are talking about is a location. Artists make music, not architecture.

    And in the same way that Wikipedia can distinguish between two things that share the same name

    Wikipedia is the sum of all human knowledge while Last.fm is about music so it don't make much sense to have entries for everything. But it would be a good idea to be able to tell different artists with the same name apart. Work is in progress, but it will probably take quiet a while.

    (and really, if listing the Composer who did not perform the music is acceptable, why is listing the theme park name which is in such heavy usage by so many people such a stretch)?

    Because the composer(s) actually created the music. The theme park is just a place where it was performed. Artists are artists, venues are venues. They are not the same thing.

    Please do yourself and Last.fm a favour and fix your tags. The easiest way is to use Musicbrainz Picard.
    • [Raderad användare] sa...
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    • 19 jun 2012, 16:02
    • Stichey sa...
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    • 20 jun 2012, 13:37
    "Wikipedia is the sum of all human knowledge while Last.fm is about music so it don't make much sense to have entries for everything"

    I'm not suggesting that Last FM support EVERYTHING, I'm saying that Disneyland is a known exception, one where 5000+ people are all making the very same "mistake" and now the solution is ruining the very community that Last FM was seemingly devised to promote. Now 5000+ people all have a bad tag and no method by which they can reconnect. And instead of trying to promote a viable solution that keeps Disney Park music enthusiasts connected, we're all just being told that we're wrong.

    So, great, it's improper to use the tag "Disneyland" despite its widespread use. But why do nothing to try and correct the damage being done to the Last FM community by your "fix?" And I have very Disneyland centric audiotracks like the music that supports the former "Peoplemover" which Muiscbrainz has no listing. Nor does Musicbrainz have listings for the "Markethouse Partyline Phone (Dinglinger's Store)" or "Fantasyland Darkride Suite" which was part of Disney's "Musical History of Disneyland Collection." So despite intuition allowing for the listing of Disneyland, we're left with no recourse. Would "Disney Imagineers" be acceptable for such cases (in the same way that London Symphony Orchestra is acceptable)? If that or another alternative exists, why not promote that so that we can have both tag integrity and a collective community of Disney music fans?


  • Redigerad av nichtsein000 den 21 jun 2012, 08:06
    • dankine sa...
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    • 21 jun 2012, 01:02
    or just people wanting accuracy. god forbid!

    non existent? there's proof they exist in this thread...

    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
    "I don't want to believe, I want to know"

    Auto Corrections Group
    • liftarn sa...
    • Wiki Moderator
    • 21 jun 2012, 07:18
    Stichey said:
    And I have very Disneyland centric audiotracks like the music that supports the former "Peoplemover" which Muiscbrainz has no listing.


    What album is that on?

    Nor does Musicbrainz have listings for the "Markethouse Partyline Phone (Dinglinger's Store)"

    Yes at http://musicbrainz.org/release/1c4d02be-34d4-41eb-9cf3-40b0b3c3b09c

    or "Fantasyland Darkride Suite" which was part of Disney's "Musical History of Disneyland Collection."

    It's at http://musicbrainz.org/release/4569735b-e1fc-4e5f-8a83-5d375aff9dfe

    Please do yourself and Last.fm a favour and fix your tags. The easiest way is to use Musicbrainz Picard.
    • Stichey sa...
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    • 27 jun 2012, 23:01
    Thanks for the reply, but many of those Musicbrainz listings you shared are either "Disney" or "Unknown." So, if "Disney" is acceptable, I can't help but return to my original point of why not allow "Disneyland" as more people will use that than "Unknown" and it's better for the community.

    But in order to avoid the circular nature of that discussion, if "Disney" is the acceptable Last FM approved catch-all that (while no more or less accurate than "Disneyland"), I'm happy to tag park tracks that lack attribution if it allows me to see others playing comparable songs and establishes a site standard that would allow future enthusiasts to compare listening habits and songs.

    If "Disney" is the answer, I'm happy to support it and thank you for your help in establishing an actionable fix.

    • Stichey sa...
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    • 27 jun 2012, 23:08
    Then again, after reading this under the "Disney" tag: "Please note that this is not an artist, but appears here due to incorrectly tagged tracks" - it seems that there is still some work to be done in determining how certain tracks are tagged. Would "Disney Imagineering" be acceptable? They seem like a reasonable solution given that they produce / create the music for the parks and attractions and might provide a better catch-all when Composers cannot be discovered. Just a thought...

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