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New auto-corrections imported

 
    • maz35 sa...
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    • 21 mar 2009, 12:00
    fmera said:
    maz35 said:
    fmera said:
    Swing Out Sister's track, Now You're Not Here - which for the longest time has been wrongly streaming the medley Now You're Not Here / No Scrubs instead (from the Live album) - is now streaming the studio version from the Shapes And Patterns album.

    what i'd like to know is, has this stream been corrected so that i should now amend my auto-correction to suggest that it's a valid track title, or is this just another of your periodic stream rotations? to add to the confusion, the previews of both tracks above remain identical - that of the latter medley.

    (btw, i've previously raised this very issue with such problems arising from rotations mixing different, and sometimes wrong, streams.)

    kindly advise.


    You should remove your autocorrection anyway as that system has nothing to do with the streams, otherwise your just gonna mess up peoples library's by having thier correctly tagged plays linked to a different one.

    i get what you're saying, but should you disregard the presence of a wrong stream just because the track page has a valid track title and is attributed to a valid artist? (valid doesn't necessarily mean correct)

    consider a situation like Up on the Roof, supposedly performed by Carole King, but in reality streaming the version sung by Little Eva (which has been reported for nearly 4 months now). both artists are valid and have recorded the same song. the optimist would say: no worries, it'll sort itself out. but meanwhile, one artist is clocking up playcount/listener stats at the expense of the other. (btw, i've stopped scrobbling this particular track since dec '08 because of it.)


    Even if thats been going for four months thats nothing compared to years of correct scrobbles either on the site or from peoples own collection. Auto correction at the moment is pretty much entirely based just in people librarys at rhe moment not on the rest of the stats. Correcting it because of the wrong stream would change the redirection of the stats to the wrong song for someone whos scrobbled correctly.

    For example my my most listened track is Electric Blue by the Cranberries with 240 plays. Now if a collosal uploading error changed that stream to someting else like I dunno...Electric Blue(God Awful Mix) and then people all tell the auto correction system to redirect to that. This all of a sudden would mean I'll have 240 plays linked to the mix rather then the original. I think peoples own tags should be taken ahead of the last fm streams.

    In addition to this I'm sure I remember a staff mention that stream fix suggestions would come later.

    (oh and while I pretty much skip any incorrect stream I come across so i dont scrobble incorrectly I'll still listen to the track tagged correctly on my PC if I have it)

  • bump - do we know yet whether autocorrections are imported weekly and if it's based on votes or what?

    • Kwaxus sa...
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    • 30 mar 2009, 19:33

    The Kilimanjaro Darkjazz Ensemble - München

    There's quite a stupid autocorrection, somehow outvoted:

    The original track München is among most of the listeners written without the diacritic sign as Munchen. Too bad for them, they're not redirected to the right one, but to something so ridiculous as München. Could you make this obvious one without voting stuff?

  • Since I don't know how often new sets of corrections are being imported, I'm just going to say this again:

    Around The World / Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger to Around the World / Harder Better Faster Stronger (which is the correct tag as stated on the CD booklet)

    One version having more listens than the other does not mean that it's been tagged correctly. So please fix that with your next import, I'd appreciate it very much.

  • The band Years is a legitimate band, but it keeps getting corrected to 10 Years. The band can be found Here. Also, it just so happens taht there is yet another band called Years, and both of the bands called Years have albums called Years. I would imagine that an obvious way to fix this is to scrobble it to whichever band according to the track name instead of the band name and album name.

  • For all you people who care about the correctness of auto-corrections, I have a group where the point is to report wrong corrections as well as things that are not currently corrected, but need to be, as well as vote on what the others have reported. This way we can correct even some things that would normally get only one vote, for example.

    Please join The Auto-Correct Correction Brigade and help make the group more effective.

    • ztl_olmi sa...
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    • 5 apr 2009, 01:26
    The Disturbed gets auto-corrected to Disturbed. Both are legit artists, the other just happens to have "The" in front of their name. Anything that can be done about this?

    BE VIGILANT
  • This is just to confirm that auto-corrections are being updated weekly. However, the number of changes each week is currently quite small. We will look at tuning the process in light of this.

    To reiterate, the system isn't driven by only votes or only scrobbles or only fingerprints. It's a combination of lots of different factors. So each week, we take into account scrobbles, votes, Musicbrainz/Discogs etc and calculate a new set of mappings. The number of votes required to flip a correction varies for each artist depending how much the other factors agree with the votes. It does however seem like the threshold for votes might be a little on the high side at the moment.

    Also bear in mind that it's an automated system so questions like "who the f**k put this retarded mapping in?" don't really make much sense.

    And please don't vote on wrongly assigned streams, that's a completely different issue and shouldn't be handled by the corrections system.

  • OK thanks for the update, I figured the situation might be like you describe but it's nice to get confirmation.

    I would say the vote thresholds are definitely too high - even with a group created solely for the purpose of voting on the same corrections, and even in cases they vote for like Keeps Getting Better > Keeps Gettin' Better where all the external factors support a redirect, the threshold still seems not to be met.

    Redigerad av DopefishJustin den 8 apr 2009, 14:47
  • @sharevari, is there any UI/visualisation improvements coming for voting system to make tracking your votes/changes easier?

    Also along same lines, will there be some kind of "emergency switch" to allow users with definite proof to report wrong correction established by just too many incorrect votes?

    • zexpe sa...
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    • 8 apr 2009, 14:56
    sharevari said:
    And please don't vote on wrongly assigned streams, that's a completely different issue and shouldn't be handled by the corrections system.
    I agree that people shouldn't vote based on wrongly assigned streams... but you can't stop them - it's natural that people will ignorantly do this unless you provide a way to clearly report incorrectly assigned streams and make sure they are fixed as soon as possible. Otherwise you'll just be fighting an uphill battle.

    On the subject of streams. You ask that we map artist names to the versions in their native scripts. However, where streams exist they are more commonly assigned to the track where artist name is in romanised scripts. If the auto-correction then corrects away from the version of the track with the stream, will the stream also then be associated to the new auto-corrected version of that track. If not, will people not then naturally assume that the track with the associated stream is "more correct"?

    • zexpe sa...
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    • 8 apr 2009, 15:50
    sharevari said:
    To reiterate, the system isn't driven by only votes or only scrobbles or only fingerprints. It's a combination of lots of different factors. So each week, we take into account scrobbles, votes, Musicbrainz/Discogs etc and calculate a new set of mappings. The number of votes required to flip a correction varies for each artist depending how much the other factors agree with the votes.
    I'd guess that last.fm receives a higher rate of correction votes than MusicBrainz. MusicBrainz may be more mature, but last.fm has the ability to rapidly overtake it in maturity and adapt more quickly. Whilst MusicBrainz may be fairly definitive for popular artists, it's much less definitive for artists outside the English speaking world. Also the number of scrobbles is almost meaningless - it's very easy for the blind to follow the blind - especially when the majority of scrobbles come from CD rips where the metadata are sourced from notoriously poorly quality-controlled free CD databases.

  • I more or less agree with all three of you. We're having a meeting tomorrow to discuss how we can increase the impact of votes without letting spam through.

    We will also in due course introduce a manual moderation system, and create a group of catalogue moderators who will have the ability to instantly change corrections.

    There will also be ways of viewing all corrections relevant to your profile etc.

    And as for the streams, they should always follow corrections along so if a stream is on the source track, it should also be available on the corrected to target.

    • Progbear sa...
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    • 9 apr 2009, 06:24
    Songs by the progressive/experimental band Trap erroneously are "corrected" to the alternative rockers Trapt.

    Affected tracks:

    UB 6 IB 9
    Presage (instrumental)
    Argonaut
    Presage (vocals)

    ...probably others, as I only have the promo CD-R EP and not the full Insurrection album. And there's another Trap album that's probably affected called Beyond the Status Quo.

    • snyde1 sa...
    • Abonnent
    • 10 apr 2009, 23:41
    sharevari said:
    We will also in due course introduce a manual moderation system, and create a group of catalogue moderators who will have the ability to instantly change corrections.
    I am anticipatng this with bated breath. Thanks for hearing the users' pleas.

    Improve your view of Last.fm - add some User Scripts.
    Did I hear that right? Mondegreens - for the misheard word. Like Odds? Can't get better than Even Odds!

    Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.
  • Out of curiosity, what's going to be done with bands who list song titles in two languages?

    * Map to the spelling in the artist's own language and character set (if applicable). E.g. map:
    Sigur Rós - Vidrar vel til loftarasa -> Sigur Rós - Viðrar vel til loftárása
    This implies that, for example, all of Drudkh's tracks with Ukrainian titles listed should get redirected to the Ukrainian versions of song titles (so, for example, When the Flame Turns to Ashes should get redirected to Коли Пломінь Перетворюється на Попіл), but that doesn't seem to be happening. Wouldn't it be more convenient anyway to use both titles somehow (such as, for example, "Коли Пломінь Перетворюється на Попіл [When the Flame Turns to Ashes]"), since that way people will be able to recognise the titles in both languages?

    anyway there are a lot of artists where tracks aren't redirecting to the artist's native language - Javier Navarrete is another example. All of the Spanish titles for Pan's Labyrinth tracks actually redirect to the English ones, which directly contradicts the guidelines listed above.

    • MrJona sa...
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    • 12 apr 2009, 10:42

    hi there

    i was just wondering whether you have already thought about a way of handling problems like they occur on this song by talib kweli for example:
    Guerrilla Monsoon Rap (featuring Black Thought & Pharoahe Monch) (at least this is the version i am forwarding everything too)

    now there are some other tags for this song, let me just post the ones with over 50 listeners in the past 6 months
    Guerrilla Monsoon Rap
    Guerrilla Monsoon Rap (feat. Black Thought & Pharoahe Monch)
    Guerrilla Monsoon Rap feat. Black Thought & Pharoahe Monch
    Guerilla Monsoon (Ft. Black Thought, Kanye West)
    guerilla monsoon rap
    guerilla monsoon ft black thou
    Guerrilla Monsoon Rap Ft Black
    Guerrilla Monsoon Rap (feat. P
    Guerrilla Monsoon Rap (ft. Black Thought & Pharoahe Monch)
    Guerrilla Monsoon Rap ft. Black Thought & Pharoahe Monch

    im quite sure that they are all the same song and im also quite sure that a lot of people are probably making suggestions for some of them but i would guess that people are suggesting forwards to different names of that song, so is there any chance that sometime soon they will all be scrobbled as ONE song?

    what im trying to say: wouldnt it make sense to have all of those names forwarded/merged to one first and THEN have the listeners decide on which one would be best?

    i hope that this is understandable and makes any sense to you at all, since its quite a wide-spread problem, especially on rap-artists with all the featurings.

    oh and btw, this really sounds like something to be looking forward too! :)

    sharevari said:
    We will also in due course introduce a manual moderation system, and create a group of catalogue moderators who will have the ability to instantly change corrections.

    • zexpe sa...
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    • 12 apr 2009, 12:13
    Cassandra-Leo said:
    Wouldn't it be more convenient anyway to use both titles somehow (such as, for example, "Коли Пломінь Перетворюється на Попіл [When the Flame Turns to Ashes]"), since that way people will be able to recognise the titles in both languages?

    I think it's OK to stick to just the native language for the track title. Then list the translation of the track title to English in the wiki entry for that track on the English-language site. That way you can do the same for French on the French-language site etc. There's also a system on last.fm where if you hover your mouse over the artist name then the name is translated to English. However, this doesn't work for every artist. I think these systems are much better than to insert English translations into track titles, as they work better with many languages as well as keeping the track title correct.

    anyway there are a lot of artists where tracks aren't redirecting to the artist's native language - Javier Navarrete is another example. All of the Spanish titles for Pan's Labyrinth tracks actually redirect to the English ones, which directly contradicts the guidelines listed above.
    The problem is that last.fm doesn't understand that a given track with the native language title is the same as the track with the English title - it's up to users to inform last.fm of the correct mappings. This needs to be done first in the MusicBrainz database, to confirm the valid title of the track in the native language. Then users on last.fm need to vote the native language version of the track title as the "correct" track title for each of the English track titles. It's all user driven. Unfortunately, as explained above, the voting system is very ineffective right now for the less popular non-English tracks, as there are just not enough native speakers voting. This threshold needs to be lowered and then native speakers can more easily inform last.fm of the correct titles in the native language.

    • fmera sa...
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    • 12 apr 2009, 17:43
    redirection for Caecilie Norby to Cæcilie Norby disabled again?

    U.G.L.Y. - changing the face of music, one artist at a time.
    there are some things pngs can't fix. for everything else, there's pngoptimizer.
  • sharevari said:
    We will also in due course introduce a manual moderation system, and create a group of catalogue moderators who will have the ability to instantly change corrections.

    This is good, especially for those tracks/artists which will never be determined by vote (anime).

    Ideally, there should also be a way for users to provide proof with their votes (booklet scans, website links, etc.) for artist and track corrections to quicken their requests for change, but the fact that we're finally talking about moving the auto-correction system forward is good enough for me, for now.

  • And what about ALBUM titles?
    I've seen some artists having(for example)the same album mispelled 4 times.
    And another example would be an artist which has more scrobblings for the wrong album:
    WRONG Prefab Sprout - Hey Manhatten 46 scrobblings 30
    listeners
    RIGHT Prefab Sprout - Hey Manhattan! 15 scrobblings 4 listeners
    Is there any way to fix that?



    • zexpe sa...
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    • 13 apr 2009, 09:26
    -METEORO- said:
    And what about ALBUM titles?
    -METEORO- read this post. Album titles aren't being dealt with yet...

    Is all this available for albums as well? Not at this time, album meta-data correction is one of the upcoming steps of this project.

  • Oh, sorry...I've read that post but it seems that I did it too fast :P
    Thanks!



    • mattgcn sa...
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    • 14 apr 2009, 04:46
    Phoenix's Armistice inexplicably changes to Armistive

    It makes no bloody sense that way, so I imagine sourcing would be redundant

    We are each a beautiful snowflake that will melt in hell.
  • I have an issue surrounding the much maligned Panic at the Disco. Despite having both the bands albums, I listen to the first more. However it keeps re-directing Panic! at the Disco to Panic at the Disco. For the first album, Panic! at the Disco is correct.

    Take a look at this from the wiki:

    "At the beginning of 2008, Panic(!) At the Disco dropped the exclamation point commonly associated with their name for all subsequent tours, albums, and merchandise."

    As the first album came before 2008, shouldn't they stand as individual artists. Stop correcting Panic!... when it is correct please!

    Serve me the sky with a big slice of lemon. - The National

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